In my experience, atheists only mention they are atheists when Christians try to impose their beliefs on them first. Which is why it seems like they mention it constantly.
An atheist could be the most altruistic, outgoing, charitable person you’ve ever met, or the most evil person on this planet, or somewhere in between. The good, the bad or the ugly. We cannot say anything about them other than they don’t use religion to justify how they live.
That said I’ve run into atheist forums that became borderline cults. And I say that as an atheist and a skeptic. I remember reading a site by PZ Myers called Pharyngula which was ostensibly about evolution but turned into a cult called Atheism+ which tacked its own beliefs onto a lack of belief. It became so obnoxious it reminded me of Globo Gym in Dodgeball “we’re better than you and we know it!” . Fortunately they’re nothing these days but it shows cults don’t need the supernatural, they just need groupthink.
I think that’s a mischaracterization.
Atheism+ was (is) more about bringing social issues into the discussion, rather than focusing solely on godlessness. It was trying to be more intersectional to bring in women, trans people, gay people, groups that historically were not welcome in predominantly white and male atheist spaces.
Atheism becomes more powerful when it can make allies. Together, we stand.
Unfortunately the dudebro contingent was … unhappy with that.
A slymepitter, you have discovered.
I am not talking about supporting women, trans / gay rights etc. That is perfectly fine, and it was not that. Like I said I was an avid follower of that site and I saw the toxicity take hold. Myers increasingly used unhinged, defamatory hate speech and followers would dogpile anyone who defied the group think or cast doubt on his utterances. It was genuinely authoritarian and cult-like, that they were the superior ones, they were Atheism+ or sometimes “New Atheism”, that anyone else was fair game for the worst smears. Luckily his obnoxiousness became so hard to ignore that he basically ostracized himself into irrelevance.
I was also on Pharyngula back then and had an entirely different experience. Did you find yourself among the dogpiled?
PZ mostly does spider posts these days.
No I wasn’t but I witnessed it. I saw people banned for arbitrary and unfair reasons. I saw Myers declare that anyone who didn’t believe exactly what he did was a troll. I saw the vile accusations and slurs and supporters shit on people who cast doubt on these accusations and slurs. Difference of opinion was not a thing to be countenanced. Atheist groups got fed up with it and some even released statements to that effect. So his marginalization and atheism+ was self inflicted and well deserved.
Idk about that. You definitely have people who wear their Atheism on their sleeves.
But they tend to be influencers and pundits and politicans and celebrities anyway. So they were going to leverage every aspect of their personality, regardless of their beliefs.
You could say the same about religious people, too, of course. You always notice the loudest people in the room. You rarely count the Silent Majority
There are entire sects of certain religions where the main focus is on spreading their religion as much as they possibly can. They literally send religious agents into locations with the express intent to convert non-believers. This is done in a methodical, organized, and in some cases, militant manner. That’s not really comparable to YouTube atheists “wearing their atheism on their sleeve”.
There are entire sects of certain religions where the main focus is on spreading their religion as much as they possibly can.
There are entire departments in major secular industries and even whole multi-billion dollar businesses dedicated to marketing, advertisement, and sales.
That’s not really comparable to YouTube atheists “wearing their atheism on their sleeve”.
The big difference between Atheism and Sectarianism is that we have a very successful model for monetizing secterian beliefs. That’s creates a vicious cycle of recruitment, expansion, collections, and new recruitment.
But all you’re ultimately describing is a business cycle. Kellogs and Ford Motor Company operate the same way. I see more ads for big-ass trucks than I do Jesus, even living in the Bible Belt.
As soon as someone figures out how to make Atheism marketable (and guys like Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Ricky Gervais have definitely made progress), you’ll have people running Atheist MLMs in the same way the Mormons do.
you’ll have people running Atheist MLMs in the same way the Mormons do.
lol bet. goofy ass opinion
This is akin to a cheater thinking everyone else also cheats. Just because all the churches run grifts for your pocket cash, you think athiests (whove been around just as long) will do the same. okay
This is akin to a cheater thinking everyone else also cheats
Not even close
Huh, what a reply. Not really sure what to do with this one.
Like, first off, it feels like you’re trying to conflate atheists and secularism with… capitalism for some reason? Like, you understand that businesses employ religious people as well as atheists right, and that secular organizations don’t exclude religious people, they’re just devoid of religious affiliation?
And second, Henry Ford and John Kellogg never ordered crusades be carried out in the name of personal motor vehicles and/or oatmeal enemas. The Catholic Church literally commanded the slaughter of millions of Muslims in the name of their god. And don’t get me wrong, I’m no bootlicking capitalist, and I recognize that most corporations are evil and greedy, and run by evil and greedy people. But nothing a corporation has done really compares to the violence and bigotry perpetrated by most of the larger religious sects, especially of the Abrahamic religions.
you’re trying to conflate atheists and secularism
I’m pointing out that marketing isn’t unique to religious organizations. And that conspicuous evangelism is what people fixate on because that’s what they see, in the same way that New Atheism is what Christians see because that’s the cohort of half-a-dozen self-promoting demagogues who do the Buy My Book media circuit from time to time.
And second, Henry Ford and John Kellogg never ordered crusades be carried out in the name of personal motor vehicles and/or oatmeal enemas.
Oh how totally wrong you are.
Henry Ford and Antisemitism: The Notorious “Dearborn Independent”. Ford famously proselytized the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion through his newspaper, his car dealerships, and his political lobbying campaigns. He’s arguably the proximate cause for an antisemitic resurgence in Europe in the World War interregnum period.
In Germany, Theodor Fritsch reprinted Ford’s Dearborn Independent articles as books in four, cumulative volumes. In 1924, Heinrich Himmler – a leader of the Nazi Party – wrote of Ford that he was “one of our most valuable, important, and witty fighters.” In Mein Kampf (“My Struggle”), Adolf Hitler’s autobiographical manifesto, Henry Ford is the only American referred to favorably, where Hitler calls him the “only a single great man.” He continues, “Ford, [who], to [the Jews’] fury, still maintains full independence… [from] the controlling masters of the producers in a nation of one hundred and twenty millions.”
He quite literally did order a crusade in the name of his car company.
But nothing a corporation has done really compares to the violence and bigotry perpetrated by most of the larger religious sects
As often as not, they are joined at the hip. Aristocrats need the clergy to cement their social legitimacy. Clerics need the aristocrats to assert military dominance. The two groups routinely co-mingle socially, crib off one another’s notes, and prop each other up politically.
From Constantine to Osteen, these people build the institutions to serve one another. Modern day plutocrats like the Kochs’ ALEC, the Peter Thiel Foundation, and the Trump/Kushner business conglomerate cultivate religious fervor in their base of support to build up fanatical support. Meanwhile, church groups and cult societies that align with them are lavished with private money, while those that resist or rebel become the target of government sanction.
Ok, sure, but the oroginal post is about how atheists specifically don’t proselytize like religious people do. And your argument is that… Capitalists do marketing? Like what?
I guess there are a few notable examples of celebrities that are ardent atheists (or agnostics), such as Rchard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, or Carl Sagan. However, I don’t think that I see that so much for pundits unless you are talking about people that are brought on specifically to speak about atheism or religion. And when it comes to politicians, atheism is usually anathema to them. I tend to see them all professing how important their faith is, even if it otherwise seems out of character for them. The only one that I can think of who is openly atheist is Kyrsten Sinema (at least in the United States), but I don’t think she uses the term “atheist.”
Maybe things are different in Europe, though.
Even the three you mentioned wrote and spoke about atheism in reaction to theistic imposition on policy and science.
It’s almost like you are trying to say atheism is pushed on people more than 1/100th as much as religion is pushed on people. They are not even remotely comparable.
If that’s what you are trying to say.
Don’t forget the Atheists banging at your door and ask you if you have heard of Atheism, your lord and savior!
Not to mention all those atheists who spend money advertising & billboards trying to recruit people into being atheists with promises of salvation with free videos and courses.
I am an atheist
I find atheists that make atheism their entire personality really fucking annoying
Be as atheist as you like but don’t shove it down everyone’s throat
I’m 60. Thirty years ago, I didn’t tell people I was atheist for fear of retribution. Such as being shunned, or getting fired from my job. Not that being atheist is the reason that would be given. That was a real concern at the time. I did get fired from one of my first jobs very soon after admitting I was atheist. It may have been coincidence, but I don’t’ think it was.
I also didn’t know of any other atheists apart from my parents and one good friend. No surprise since no one else was speaking up either. But, I did feel isolated.
I’ve never met IRL someone who fully rejects all types of supernatural belief, as I do.
In short, no, atheists are not going around telling people they’re atheist without being prompted. I do recommend you start a low carb diet, though, and get more exercise.
I’ve never met IRL someone who fully rejects all types of supernatural belief, as I do.
You have now. I think of all religion the exact same way as I think of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Roman and Greek Gods, Harry Potter, etc.
And I don’t mind sharing that belief, either. I’m not rude about it, I NEVER bring it up ony own, but I also won’t politely accept their superstitions as a logical argument for ANYTHING. If we’re doing something because God wants us to, then I’m against it. Show me a real reason that isn’t a fantasy, and I’ll consider it.
Religious reasons are the same as saying Mickey Mouse told me so, and I would have absolutely no problem saying “I’m not doing this just because your “God” says so, give me a real reason,” no matter who is in the room. That’s not being rude, being rude is demanding I do something stupid because YOUR psychopathic imaginary friend says so, and you’re terrified that he will punish you if we don’t. I’m not doing something I disagree with, just because you are afraid of your own imaginary friend. Go fuck yourself with your childish nonsense.
It helps that I’m self-employed, and my incompetent boss has the same beliefs as me.
I’ve met plenty online, but never face to face. As I didn’t grow up with religion, I wasn’t aware of the wide range of beliefs and the various terms people used. When I was first starting out in life, I thought there were atheists, and believers, and didn’t understand there was a gray area in between. A deep soup of “spiritual” beliefs that people ascribed to, mixed and matched, and would still describe themselves as “atheist”, and strictly, they were sometimes, it just wasn’t how I thought of atheism. It took me a while to sort through all that.
I remember in grade school, when I had first encountered the word “atheist” and knew that described me, I mentioned it to a kid. That kid was my sometimes-antagonist, almost-bully. When I said I didn’t believe in god that little shit was shocked. He never talked to me or bothered me again. LOL.
I try to be respectful of other’s beliefs, we’re all just trying to get through life, and some of us don’t have as many cards to play with. That “respect” usually means I don’t talk about such things with them, and that usually works just fine. But, as I’m sure we all know, there are a few who just can’t stop themselves from “spreading the word” with every encounter. Them I avoid.
Hello! Fully atheist 79+ over here. I grew up in a Protestant Christian home, even taught Sunday school, but somehow never really caught the bug. I flirted with a mother goddess/earth spirits flimflam for a while when I was in a hippy phase, but soon came to my current stance: I’m glad some people find comfort in myths and fairy stories, but I don’t buy any of it. Death is the end, there is no soul (I mean, look around you!), no afterlife, no heaven or hell. It’s all methods of social control or (at best) self-soothing.
Luckily I’ve never had to deal with being ostracised for my atheism. The closest I’ve come was a friend chastising me for blasphemy. I pointed out that you had to be a believer for it to count as blasphemy. She also tutted about some Mexican-style skull decorations in a cafe, and I had to break it to her that it was some weird Christian thing, a bit like the Roman torture device she was wearing, lol.
I still did not tell anyone, not even my parents that I am an atheist. I am hardcore atheist like you. Just a lot younger than you
I’m very fortunate in that I was raised without religion. What’s strange to me is that out of four kids, I’m the only one that didn’t end up with some sort of spiritual beliefs. We were all raised in the same house by the same parents, but the others… I don’t know what happened with them.
maybe they got inspired with new age spirituality wave that came in 70s
Don’t forget the atheist call to prayer
I’m an atheist and I know a lot of others, but none who make it a part of their identity (I’m sure some do). Like the only time it really comes up in conversation is in response to someone bringing up a religious perspective. In fact, I’ve had a lot of people assume I’m especially religious because I don’t cuss much, don’t drink much, etc.
B-b-but what’s stopping you from cursing and drinking if you don’t believe in god?
Reminds me of the christian apologist that said he would rape and murder if god didn’t exist, since there wouldn’t be any consequences
If the threat of eternal torture is the only thing keeping you from murdering and raping then you just might be an absolutely horrible person
Is not drinking part of the bible? Jesus literally has a whole story where a party runs out of booze so he uses his heavenly powers to make multiple buckets of booze to keep the buzz rolling …
He’s also nice to poor people and sex workers. That woke fucking heretic.
And he was middle eastern with brown skin. So he’s an immigrant taking our jobs too
If it takes threats of eternal suffering to force you to a good person, you’re not a good person
That same little voice in my head that tells me I should bite babies and squeeze puppies because it’ll make them cuter. Oh my god, do you think that’s God?! I should probably start following through with cute aggression! Unless it’s not God, which means… Fuck you, I’m gonna get drunk at this funeral!
Honestly pretty good time to get drunk.
If god didn’t want me to nosh on baby toes, why did he make them look so damn noshable? In this Ted talk, I’ll explain why cannibalism is a divine mandate, based on…
I curse and drink as much as I want to!
Which is a lot, and not a lot any more, respectively.
Curiously, I stopped cursing by hanging around with my wife’s kids, who took expletives seriously.
And I don’t drink because it makes me feel cruddy.
It’s amazing how often people say dumb stuff like that.
And, by the way, I don’t actually have any issue with cussing and drinking. I was a manager at a conservative company for a long time, so cussing just because something that isn’t a default, and alcohol doesn’t seem to do any of the fun stuff for me like it does for other people (no buzz, no relaxation, no reduced inhibitions), so it’s just not something I’m drawn to.
Curiously, I stopped cursing by hanging around with my wife’s kids, who took expletives seriously.
And I don’t drink because it makes me feel cruddy.
Curiously, I stopped cursing by hanging around with my wife’s kids, who took expletives seriously.
And I don’t drink because it makes me feel cruddy.
Curiously, I stopped cursing by hanging around with my wife’s kids, who took expletives seriously.
And I don’t drink because it makes me feel cruddy.
Holy quadruplicate post, Batman!
Yeah, I think the problem is upstream, either with Blåhaj Lemmy or higher.
But I’ve been getting a lot of failure-to-post errors.
Oh! Right! I’d forgotten about that. I don’t drink, smoke, and I limit swearing. That did lead people to assume I was religious, when the exact opposite was true.
Ah, the toupée fallacy, “all toupées look fake, I’ve never seen one that looked real”. Bro never asks about someone’s beliefs, only knows that the Atheists who tell him outright are Atheists, and he makes a sweeping assumption about all Atheists.
Poor vegans get this one constantly.
As an atheist vegan, I… fuck I’ve done it again.
People who think they can “always tell” if someone is trans
I feel that one also has the false positive version as well.
“Toupée fallacy”? Interesting, I only know that as survivorship or selection bias.
To be fair, it’s not an “official classical” fallacy. It’s more of a tongue in cheek knock-off of selection bias. Pretty sure I’ve only seen it online.
Though I like it in cases like this, as it highlights how the group was selected based on the availability heuristic. Which to that point, survivorship bias would have fit really well here as well.
Looking back on it, I could have just posted the picture of that plane diagram and gotten my point across.
I do think it clicks on a particularly viceral level unlike the other options. It may be tongue in cheek, but it’s very rhetorically effective
Oh, you are another shot aircraft poster?
Apparently I’m not quite clever enough for that. I’m more of a “take too long to get to the point” and “hindsight is 20/20” poster. ¯\(ツ)/¯
I kind of wanna go door to door handing out Atheism pamphlets now.
I’m going to hold people at attention on an air plane while espousing the vows of atheism. Some good atheist rock music that people really do like to convince them to follow atheism. Not just any though, MY form of atheism. /s
Not just any though, MY form of atheism.
Unified Atheist League or United Atheist Alliance?
spits obviously not the uaa dogs
Unión of Atheistic Assholes, actually
That was exactly one very obnoxious woman, and she did - in fact - get banned from flying on a number of airlines.
There was reports of others doing the same, but they’re so few that might as well be anecdotal.
You forgot the part where athiests are trying to legislate that schools display the 10 athiest commandments in every class room. Damn athiests, pushing their atheism down our throats
It’s the “no good wigs” fallacy.
It affects literally no other part of reality so the only way you’d find out is if they told you.
I hand out pamphlets that are just blank pieces of paper.
In atheism they let you have more than one husband or wife… For dinner, they don’t have to be your wife or husband.
