I’ve never seen Babylon 5… am I missing out?
Definitely. It was a groundbreaking show with some of the best character development and plot arcs on television, including everything that has come after. Incredible performances, deep lore, and fantastic writing.
You’ll have to get past the dated effects and synth soundtrack, but that’s easy after a few episodes. If you like sci-fi, you’ll love Babylon 5.
But I love dated effects and synth soundtracks!
don’t threaten me with a good time!
Have I got good news for you…
B5 also had the best space combat with speed vectors or whatever is closer to real physics instead of shops and shuttles flying like boats and airplanes.
Babylon 5 also seemed to write better space combat with the larger ships. Spacedock has a good video about the Battle of Proxima 3 where it goes through how the show wrote a believable naval civil war battle including understanding the geography of the area, the tactics of the different forces, and the politics behind the battle.
With the quirk that only most ships fly like that. Ships with gravimetric drives (ships made by the Vorlons, Minbari, and Centauri) fly like boats and aircraft. Which then gets really cool when you notice both types of ship behaving correctly in the same shot.
I was thinking of the human fighters and forgot that the alien ships did move in a more alien way!
If you like sci-fi political drama mixed with action and intrigue, yes.
Otherwise, yes.
I love DS9 so I guess Babylon is up next
I won’t lie, G’Kar = Accidental Jesus got me.
Saving this for after I understand
It’s good and an easy watch, only 5 seasons. SURE you can watch all the movies too and maybe the spin off series but in all honestly you can probably skip the spin off.
The first season can be a struggle to get through for many people but you kinda have to watch it as everything ties together. and there’s a major plot point you won’t understand or appreciate in the last couple seasons unless you watch season 1. But once the Shadow War kicks off man that show hits its stride, starts running, and just doesn’t stop until the very last episode.
The space combat is probably the absolute best. The best part in that series is seeing jump gates open at JUST the right time and wondering whose coming out of them.
Not to mention the graphic design of the whole thing. Those black ships gave me the absolute creeps back in the day. And obviously there’s no sound in space, luckily the ships are telepathic and scream in your mind as they go by. Fucking sci-fi Aztec Death Whistles, jikes!
Picard ripped off the shadow vessel design so damned hard…
I recently did an in-universe chronological rewatch of b5 and daaaaaaamn did it sing
all honestly you can probably skip the spin off.
Crusade was pretty forgettable, and didn’t help me enjoy Babylon 5 more or anything. I wouldn’t hesitate to skip it. The one thing I do remember about it is how the person controls the ship’s weapons systems. It was pretty cool how they get suspended in midair in an empty room and their bodily gestures are somehow translated into weapons actions.
Karate guns were actually from Legend of the Rangers, which never made it past the pilot movie. Crusade was the series TNT fucked with so they could activate an escape clause in their contract, with episodes that didn’t make sense in any order and only half a season produced.
Karate guns were actually from Legend of the Rangers
That explains why I couldn’t find a video or anything when searching for info on the subject!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZapAjjTDbh4
This sure looks more silly and nonsensical than what I remember. Though I’m not sure if this video is exactly what was in the episode or if the video was edited to make it more silly. EDIT: I just skipped around the actual episode. That scene in the YouTube video is definitely the most obnoxious of the karate guns scenes, but that is exactly how the scene went. No video editing trickery to make it seem more silly.
So, I guess that means I don’t remember anything from Crusade. I definitely remember the techno mage, but I don’t remember anything specific about him, and he was also a major character in a few episodes of Babylon 5 anyway. I do remember the captain asking for TPS reports.
Yes.
It’s the first TV show with actual character arcs - planned out from the start
Offhand remarks from S1 will realise into actual actions in S4
The CGI is of course dated at this point, especially the space battle stuff. Characters are largely practical though, so they look fine still.
Otherwise IMO the first season starts a little slow and there’s a ton exposition heavy stuff early to introduce the world. It does pick up soon though and it avoids the returning to status quo after episode quite well. Pretty much every episode moves some of the bigger background plots forward
I love deep lore and exposition so this will be fun.
Definitely don’t mind older effects either.
B5 wins for being the only serious sci fi series that had a species that flew actual stereotypical flying saucers
Also the gag about the species that own those things look like greys and really did abduct humans for experimentation, and now the descendants of those humans are suing.
B5’s gags were top tier
Characters are largely practical though, so they look fine still.
You get characters like G’Kar who are obviously just human actors in stiff latex prosthetics and it’s pretty immersion-breaking. You just have to look past it and pretend it’s actually a lizard person, like you do with Cardassians.
The actor’s performance is lauded so consistently that the prosthetics really don’t seem like a problem for most people. We’re mostly not beyond the point where sci-fi aliens are basically humans, because they’re played by humans and speak like humans. Whether it’s make-up or motion capturing for CGI.
It takes huge efforts to move beyond that, like Rocky. I’m sure there are more, but probably not many - anyone got other examples?
G’Kar’s prosthetics are actually shockingly malleable. The brow actually moves and the area around the mouth is soft enough for stuff like big grins.
It will either change your world, or help you accept that you are really a simple person at heart.
Me watching the first episode: Wow, the budget for these episodes is someone’s lunch money.
Me watching the last episode: 🫡😭
B5 is a more honest tale (feels handmade and passionate), that you might not appreciate if you need high production values to keep interested.
B5 is less accessible, and sometimes you need to be paying attention. DS9 is better at spoon feeding you and making sure you have what you need. B5 is trying to tell the B5 story. DS9 is trying to expand its region of Star Trek story telling, and occasionally wanders into expert episodes of single story high sci-fi. B5 is a different kind of epic (more like a Space Opera)
They both do great things but some people want the backing and polish of a Star Trek univese, which can make DS9 feel more like home, whilst also preventing it from feeling alien. B5 feels more alien and like there’s something unknown going on, as scifi maybe should?
You need the 4:3 4k rescan version, it’s so unbelievably crispy and correct.
Which is honestly too bad because the show was originally filmed for 16:9 with the expectation that 16:9 TVs would become common in the near future, which they did. The 4k version is only 4:3 because the effects were done on the cheap and mastered for 4:3 standard definition and nobody that could afford it wants to redo all the effects work.
No. You get harsher contrasts in quality whenever a digital effect is used.
And, starting with Mind War, there is an increasing appearance of green tint on everything until it dominates.
Get the DVDs while you still can.
I got the entire ezy dvd boxed set complete with a b5 backpack back in the 00’s.
Donde
Just like DS9 takes 3 seasons to find its footing, B5 takes almost the whole first season. But then the rewards are so, so good…
I’m having such a hard time getting through the first season of B5. DS9 at least is comfy right from the beginning and just keeps on getting better. I really have to pull myself together and continue watching B5…
First time is always hard, but the payoff is well worth it
Sounds like fun. I got through SG-1 and has fun in an MST3K way but I’m sure this will be better
SG-1 is almost more of a comedy disguised as a sci-fi,. particularly in later seasons. I love it, but it was certainly an adjustment after seeing the other major sci-fi shows of the 90s.
Agreed it hit like a parody so when they put in a meta tv show it sent me.
While I’m a DS9 fan Babylon 5 is not a TV show its a Novel and D&D campaign that took the form of a TV show. The amount of forethought he took was amazing.
Well put. I am not the biggest fan, there are quite a few weak episodes and I was cringing a lot at Lando and G’Kar for a long while. I dropped it on my first attempt and only returned to it when I ran out of trek material. I’m now on last few episodes and, yes, it was worth it. The amount of character growth, the crazy long story arcs and the sense of direction is really unique. Or, if it’s not, I’d really like to hear about other contenders.
Tried watching the first episode a couple of times but it didn’t really capture my interest. Plus somehow the video quality managed to be even worse than DS9.
S1 starts a bit slow, but it’s most certainly worth watching this amazing show.
It’s definitely a slow start - lots of world building being done.
People love it and all respect to them. I could never get into it. Back in the day, serialized storytelling on TV was often harder to break into because you didn’t just sit down and steam whole series in order. You had to watch whatever was on the air and whenever Babylon 5 came on I’d check it out, be totally lost on what was happening, get sick of all the talking, and change the channel.
The space station show where an alien religious cast helps the station commander fight a large scale political and physical war against an insidious enemy not detectable to the human eye, even though a genocidal race aiding them may be sacrificed?
…wait, which one am I talking about?
spoiler
The one that’s pro-union, has large character arcs, and a conspiracy that plays out back home.
Wait, which one?
spoiler
The one where ancient text profecy it all.
spoiler
The one where the Station Commander actually belonged to that part of space after all. You know, he wasn’t really like other humans.
…i give up.
They both match these descriptions… But interestingly enough B5 often ends up feeling like it’s telling the bigger story! Sometimes it feels like DS9 is just trying to keep up with it (albeit with much higher production values).
…and the B5 aliens are somehow, more alien. It’s got a lot going for it, and is an underdog that punches above its weight class.
B5 from the getgo had the whole mythic arc written out. Ds9 had to play the trek serialisation until B&B were distracted enough for ISB to go ham
JMS pitched B5 to Paramount, and then Paramount mysteriously made DS9, a show with no similarities at all…
They’re my two favorite Sci-fi shows, and I have room in my heart for both!
Same here, but B5 will always be my number one.
It’s both 10% sillier and 10% darker at the same time 🙂
I heard about the story about how Paramount turned down the Babylon 5 pitch, then turned around and made Deep Space 9. Of course the two shows went in different directions, and are each great in different ways. But there are eyebrow-raising surface similarities. Both shows are named after a numbered space station, feature a commander who is a prophesized savior, have long story arcs, explore moral complexity.
Yesterday I watched the movie pilot, The Gathering. There is another similarity I hadn’t realized before: both commanders are romantically involved with a freighter caption whose name starts with “Ca”!
it’s interesting the ways they got more similar as they went on, too. there’s one particular plot point that B5 does later on, after realizing they had accidentally been foreshadowing it, that comes from the pilot of DS9. i’m not saying they copied it but they couldn’t exactly unwatch it either. the suits at Paramount definitely fucked over JMS when they stole the basic premise, but once both shows were on the air i think they both benefitted from the unintentional dialogue between them
and fun fact: Lyta’s actress was also an extra and stunt double on DS9. reportedly she got a lot of complements on B5 in very hushed tones on the Paramount lot
DS9 was actually already in very early pre-production when JMS made his pitch. They also spent some time during his pitch trying to convince him to do it as a Trek show, which, in hindsight, was obviously an attempt to get him on their similar project. Then everyone who knew about the pitch got really hands-off with DS9’s development.
Ah TIL.
I thought that was a porn parody like that:
https://www.imdb.com/de/title/tt1977920/If you count this… https://youtu.be/0GOoMowFpZs?t=33m26s
nah. but if you’re a fan of trek and B5, it’s fucking hilarious.
There’s just so much love going into it. You can’t savage something so badly without a certain adoration.
Its so wonderfully stupid and clever at the same time
FUKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOV
Not even close
Babylon five felt cheaper in every way for me. DS9 ftw.
Really, even with all the deeply cringy Bashir and Ferengi stuff? That alone made DS9 much harder to get into for me, and then the continued weak writing and wooden acting once the show ‘found it’s feet’ wasn’t particularly inspiring either. Even the best episodes of DS9, which imo is arguably the best of the Treks, pale in comparison to the weak episodes of B5.
I think B5 generally had the better story. DS9 had much better production values. Not to say DS9 didn’t have some great stories, but B5’s was just better thought through and more cohesive. The story arc was clearly planned from the beginning with B5 with all the details that get seeded in early seasons and pay off in later seasons. DS9 is much more episodic (except for the whole Dominion war thing) with not nearly as much development.
I’ve only seen 1 episode of Babylon 5, the union episode that was floating around Lemmy yesterday. It definitely beats Bar Association, but I have a hard time imagining that it could beat episodes like Past Tense
Babylon 5s pay off comes in season 3 and 4. There are some great episodes at the end of season 1 and season 2. But S3 and S4 are the best television I’ve seen. It’s hard to imagine but still the case.
I dunno. Some aspects, maybe. But others aspects are quite jarring.
odd choice for a meme to compare. you know how that movie ends tho…
the smaller bullet won that battle.
Even more boring than Deep Sleep: 9?! Amazing. 😉
Try watching Space Above and Beyond if you can find it. Only went for one season and wasn’t renewed. Sets up a hard fighting crew with internal personal conflicts that rocks out whilst killing aliens and cyborgs.
Good show, shame it didn’t survive.
Set in the years 2063–2064, the show focuses on the “Wildcards”, members of the United States Marine Corps 58th Squadron of the Space Aviator Cavalry.
finally someone else remembers that show. I was hooked on it when I was a kid. Sadly I’ve never found it to buy or stream.
Space Above and Beyond
I won’t (or rather cant) use Youtube but I think full episodes are there.
There are also upscaled and regular versions floating around the usual places.
I try to avoid YouTube myself, but I might see if I can find it elsewhere 🏴☠️
The space physics were excellent at the time. Was a great show
