Is it legal in the US to shoot people who are trying to kidnap you?
I mean, anyone can go around claiming to be law enforcement or ICE or whatever, but with no badge or ID, how are people supposed to know that this isn’t a gang trying to trafic them?
In vast majority of states there is a stand-your-ground law in place, which means you’re explicitly allowed to use deadly force if you reasonably believe that you’re defending yourself from a violent crime, and in minority there is a duty to retreat while outside of your home or workplace, which means that you still are allowed to use deadly force, but you have to try to retreat first, and only use force if you are reasonably sure that you can’t run away.
Kidnapping by a group of people in plain clothes in an unmarked van is explicitly stated as an example of a case where use of deadly force is permitted by law.I think that would count as self defence.
but would the court?
According to law, it’s a matter of law in most of the states, and matter of jury instructions in a limited number of states. In other words, it is explicitly a law.
you’re almost there
I’m pretty sure self defence doesn’t apply against law enforcement, even if you don’t know they are law enforcement.
There have been cases where firing upon law enforcement who failed to adequately identify as such has counted as self defence
It may not, but imo you do what you have to do to protect yourself against aggravated kidnapping, and then hope you/your lawyer can articulate how/why you did what you did later in court.
Oh, totally, no dispute there.
As Legaleagle put it in their most recent video: At that point it becomes logical to resist arrest, to run or to fight.
It’s called “disappearing someone” and it was something that was supposedly done by dictators and tyrants.
Like today’s USA.
How long will people
The Gestapo could be hauling them away in cuffs and putting them away in camps and some will just go “why is this happening to me? there must be some mistake”
Anyone who is still on the fence is either only tuned into propaganda or is incapable of reasoning.
Or still thinks that the leopard won’t eat their face, because it hasn’t so far.
Yeah, for many the leopard has to actually be eating their face directly at the moment for it to be a problem.
There has to be some serious level of being downtrodden that’s required to like empathy for everyone else in the world that’s not them.
That’s 'Murica in a nutshell
I mean America is a fascist regime. And you know who support fascism? Fascists. So I guess most fascists are kinda OK with what’s happening.
That’s not denial, that’s full endorsement.
Must be nice living in such a black and white world.
I wonder what chain of thought led you to this conclusion, which is very strange to me. But at the same time, I’m not willing to start some kind of futile quarell over this so… well, have it your way and have a good day.
This argument will just give the fascist leverage to call you a fascist. They are pros at projection and sadly you dont stand a chance.
The issue is fascists are going to lie regardless. There is nothing we can say, no way we can act that will prevent that. It is pointless to try.
Not asking that we try to confront the fascist populous. Asking we confront the fascist government.
I fail to see how this responds to my comment.
The op was saying americans are fascist so it makes sense the government is fascist. To claim the general populace is fascist will only get you in a shouting match of who the most fascist is. A distraction from what really matters, addressing the fascist regime occupying the white house.
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Apparently not because they keep doing it and are effective in their propaganda when they have no right to be.
Fun fact: you know who gave them that power? Bill Motherfucking Clinton. And he fucking did it for money.
Cracks me the fuck up the rest of the world thinks this now.
This has been the case since Bush passed Citizens United and it was even happening before that. RIP Rosenbergs.
I thought Citizens United was an Obama thing. Are you sure you don’t mean the Patriot Act?
It happened during the Obama administration but it was in response to shit under Bush from people being critical of him/his admin. Obama did not support Citizens United.
I thought it was a Supreme Court thing? What did Obama do?
Not every bad law is fascism.
I would say only in a vacuum.
There’s gotta be
criminalsnon-ICE who exploit this. Like it must be so easy now for ransomers to kidnap somebody.Did you not see the security company guy who dressed as a cop and murdered a state senator, her husband, and shot another state senator?
But see, it was the other team, so it’s okay.
Thanks. Since moving from Reddit to Lemmy, I’ve become way more aware of what I’m clicking on. I’m pretty sure the amp project links are just for mobile phones n stuff, but it’s good to be aware
Thanks. Google was serving me nothing but slop
as if by design…
I think the line between a liberal democracy and fascism is much blurrier than most people think. I suspect the transition from one to the other, going in either direction, is entirely dependent on how much internal forces threaten the ruling capitalist class.
Right now, I think the US is on the decline but hasn’t yet experienced a crisis which really threatens the power of the capitalist class. Fascists seeking power therefore need to manufacture crises in order to accumulate power. That’s where I think the US is at right now.
However, I’m not sure how well it will really work. Democratic state leaders are effectively demonstrating that the existing law enforcement structures are perfectly capable of violently cracking down on dissent. So if you’re a wealthy capitalist, why would you push your bought and paid for judges and politicians to make Trump president for life? It seems like a needlessly risky move in my opinion.
That said, we can only say that the rich will operate rationally to protect their own interests on average. Individually, they can be wildly erratic like Elon Musk has proven to be. As such, the more wealth is concentrated into fewer and fewer hands, the less predictable the outcomes are.
True, fascism is the ultimate weapon that capitalists use in reaction to labor movements and class consciousness gaining strength. In fact, I’d argue that given modern advances in communication technology, which allow people to communicate and organize easier than ever, a fascist swing was almost inevitable.
It’s a shame that western world leaders don’t like dialectic materialism. We might have identified the problem before it seized power.
What may have been the largest organized protests in American history were just a few days back, the president has record-breakingly low approval, even his own party’s talking heads are turning against him. If you’re not going to be satisfied by anything short of armed uprising then at least be brave enough to say as much, but pretending that Americans just don’t see anything wrong and aren’t doing anything is an act of wilful and blatant ignorance.
I wouldn’t rest on your laurels just yet. You’ll know when you’ve begun to turn the tide because the beast will lash out. The restraint we are seeing right now just means they’ve got a whole lot more in the tank.
You dont have to look further than last October to see this same type of hubris play out. Kamala had momentum and there was 100% a point where if the vote happend then she would have won. For what ever reason they backed off on the “weird” stuff and started rolling out the neocons. The DNC is going to fuck you and you wont even see it coming.
You’re only proving that you don’t actually have any idea what’s going on here, acting like we’re resting on our laurels because there was a big protest. Nobody here is thinking “Yeah we made ourselves heard, job’s done!” Nobody here says the fight is won, but you’re out here acting like nothing is being done at all.
No. Im pushing like I’ve been pushing for the last 8 years. Grow up.
You know what Hitler did when he had low approval? He made disapproving illegal.
Just wait for it.
I would say the US has an executive with aspirations to implement aspects of a fascist state. As long as millions of people are protesting in the streets, the courts are ruling against the executive on points of law and people are standing their ground it is still a long road for the executive to get where they want to go. If the country really was full fascist you would be totally fucked and being shipped with your family to a concentration camp for disloyalty to great leader right now.
Unlike some other countries where law enforcement and prisons might be state run on principle, the US has a history of privatizing such functions. They had the union busting Pinkerton thugs, for profit prisons and bounty hunters. A society that didn’t cry out when the Pinkertons were busting the heads of working people or kids were being railroaded into for profit prison slavery shouldn’t be surprised when thugs are clearing the streets of immigrants. That is just America sadly. That nastiness has always been there.
There are still people here who still make the excuse that Harris is just as bad as Trump, you guys are fucked as a country
You always like to claim people say that, but no one ever says that. They said they wouldnt vote for anyone in any party who supports genocide. You twist it around to be the words you prefer. I call that lying, but to each their own.
Meanwhile their vote or lack thereof directly empowered someone who actively encourages it, they just don’t want to take responsibility for that part.
It would not have been a problem if you had ranked choice voting.
If Musk sets up his own party that would split the conservative vote so the Republicans would finally be open to ranked choice. Would probably require ⅔ majority in Congress.
But Dems might be too hungry for temporary power to support such a much needed fix.
Ranked choice is nice, but why not just have an actually democratic system with coalitions? No need for a single winner.
Ranked choice allows for coalitions like in AU.
Maybe you mean Multi Member Proportional voting like NZ and DE. That is the best system but complicated. US cannot even deal with converting to metric so MMP would result in exploding heads.
Yes, that was what I was going for. The really big issue with FPTP systems, especially hard ones like the US is that they create two-party systems which are incredibly undemocratic.
Third parties just can’t exist, because they split the vote for your side, so the only choice you have if you are unhappy with your party is to not vote or vote for the other party, and all that does is benefit that other party you’d be even more unhappy with.
You know, kinda like one might think Harris isn’t left enough, so they end up helping Trump to power.
But what’s even worse is that the elected president only ever represents close to 50% of the population, and he’s close to all-mighty and can do whatever he wants without anyone really checking him.
In better systems coalitions between major parties form, and they represent a much bigger slice of the population, and they keep each other in check, having to compromise to not risk blowing up the coalition. And better systems also have a stronger and more living constitution. One that gets updated more frequently, and that has to be updated more frequently because it includes more details. Since constitutional changes then require a larger supermajority (e.g. 2/3 or 3/4), the governing coalition needs to take the needs of the opposition into account as well, because they need their votes when a constitutional change is required.
For example, the US has had 27 constitutional amendments (10 of which happened within a year of the constitution being created, they were basically 0-day-patches) over the last 236 years.
Austria has had about twice as many within the last 70 years.
These coalitions still happen with ranked choice but only if a minor party is popular in a district.
Except for Tasmania in Australia where minor parties have an even better chance. It has only 5 districts for state elections and each district has 5 seats. Greens often get a seat because their candidate is 5th most popular in a district.
In other states they are now winning seats but fewer than Tasmania.
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That guy is saying it: https://lemmy.world/post/31562244/17770374
(Or actually, they are saying Harris is worse.)
I have heard the same stance often enough to definitely be able to say, “no one ever says that” is not correct. There are more than enough idiots who do say that.
That guy is a republican.
Statistically, there are more than enough people who voted for Biden and then for Trump 2.
That sentence makes no sense.
Let’s put it into math instead:
Let S1 be the set of people who voted for Biden. Let S2 be the set of people who voted for Trump’s second term.
S1 ∩ S2 ≠ {}
If that’s not helpful, let’s try code:
s1 = getPeopleWhoVotedForBiden() s2 = getPeopleWhoVotedForTrumpsSecondTerm() if (x for x in s1 if x in s2 > 0): print("There are more than enough people qualifying for for what I said")And lastly, to reformulate the sentence:
There are lots of people who in 2020 voted for Biden and in 2024 voted for Trump.
hah, you looked up an intersection symbol, nice. And now I just cant help myself since you gave me that response…
So of 152 million votes cast, you’d like to show a sample size of just 1 person or more proves your hypothesis? seems pretty biased against the null hypothesis.
And your restatement of your hypothesis: “There are lots of people who in 2020 voted for Biden and in 2024 voted for Trump.”
You are proving “lots” with > 1? thats just not what “lots” means in english.
And I think we’re done here.
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Well you have a deranged view of the world so I don’t really care what you think is a lie, when you can’t even be truthful about your own bullshit
Potato potato.
For some it’ll probably take til his fourth
For Texas at least, under penal code 9.31(a)(1-3) it’s presumed to be reasonable self defense to use force (it specifically does not mention what kind of force, but it is assumed that deadly force is included, I think) against a person who “was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.”
Are people in denial? It just seems like a commonly understood thing. I’ve talked to straight CNN consuming boomers and even they see it for what it is.
For the record I’m in Canada so maybe it’s just hard to see from the inside.
If they aren’t in the streets they are in denial
Now? You think this happens at the drop of a hat? The entire system is built that way since decades.
Right? The fuck these people think Vietnam was?
An international hug, with Agent Orange. That’s a tasty breakfast beverage, right?
We did just have the largest protest in the history of the nation… I think some of us are aware.
Not nearly enough apparently
The George floydd protests didn’t get nation wide comprehensive justice system reform.
The Iraq war protests didn’t stop the Iraq war.
Occupy wall street didn’t change how the economy functions.
… I love the protesters… I love the protests… but the mere fact youre coming at me like that meant anything other than we marched in the street on a Saturday tells me youre not taking this seriously.
You just wait until the 2A nuts come out. We all know they hate nothing more than a corrupt government, and the only reason they stockpile guns is to fight the government. Right?
Oops, they actually like tyranny, go figure.
We protect ourselves. I think there are enough examples of how the police and the justice system protects us to reference if you dont believe that yet.
You have no idea who I am or what I do. Don’t be so arrogant.
If I made you angry, good. Angry people are more likely to act.
Angry people are more likely to act. Yep , that’ how you end up getting punched in the face. Or assassinated.
… who’s being arrogant again?
The protests were baked into the Project 2025 plan from its inception. They’ve changed nothing.
Stop being a defeatist.
These people don’t need “The Event” to attempt their stupid fucking plan. It will be 100% fabricated if need be.
I wasn’t even implying they needed it, just that none of the people in power are going to change their minds on anything as a result of the protests.
