Just watched this. Was interesting to see how they build with straw to modern standards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdpKKZUw1eA
Soon goats and sheep will be add-ons on your homeowners insurance.
literal tinder boxes…
If you are jokeing and referring to the fairytale then I get it.
Otherwise: no it’s not a tinderbox. I work in construction as a carpenter and we encounter this building method and the fire argument sometimes. Fire needs fuel and an oxidant. No oxygen after the little that is in there and the worst thing is a slow glim and even that won’t happen. The walls covering this straw are made from f30 material that can withstand fire, you guessed it, for 30 minutes. So no flash fires In seconds.
Another example is blow in
inaulwyioninsulation smartasses made from cellulose recycling. News paper. It has been used for at least two decades in Germany and is never thr cause for a fire.Another example is blow in inaulwyion made from cellulose recycling.
Ugh, I guess you meant insulation? And yes, this stuff is widely used in Finland, too.
Thanks. I just figured this was some obscure building material I had never heard of. Maybe Icelandic in origin.
Oh it is. Only known to the very few initiated.
That reminds me, I should add some more inaulwyion to my attic this fall.
Please do. Before it’s too late.
Massively well built for insulation properties. The biggest thing to bedevil this building material is water. Would absolutely love a small house built with packed straw or even better, cob.
Water in any kind of insulation or basic material (even concrete) would be bad in terms of insulation properties but also in lasting damage to the building substance.
Well yeah but water + haybales = fire traditionally (IIRC the drying process is exothermic somehow?)
In a large pile like a compost it makes sense, but not in a thin (relatively) wall segment. It doesn’t make sense to me …
What if the f30 material is damaged or air gaps left by installer?
How resilient and sensitive to flaws in construction?
I watched a strawbale building demonstration 20 years ago where they torched a stuccoed strawbale structure that had no treatments: the fire reached over 2000°f and when it was cooled, they cut open the stawbales and showed the fire didn’t burn the bale more than an inch deep. They really do not burn due to the lack of oxygen.
Water on the other hand can rot out a whole wall if it’s not sealed.
I watched a strawbale building demonstration 20 years ago where they torched a stuccoed strawbale structure that had no treatments:
Are you a firefighter or family because those are the only folk I can think of who get to go to those and they sound fun as hell
Same with wood in fires. Large crossections have a great fire rating because the outer layer chars and keeps oxygen away.
Then you violated the building code. Regarding fire and arguably more importantly air tightness to prevent condensation and resulting water damage.
In attics its mandatory to do a blow out test where you create overpressure and search for air movement and leaks with a smoke machine.
Rule of thumb is outer walls wind tight, inside perimeter walls air tight. (Diffusion open)
and what if the owner added a hole because they felt like it?
That wouldn’t be good for a bunch of reasons. Mainly because the owner is obviously stupid.
That being said, I’d argue that Cars aren’t safe because if you light a fire under it and wait for a few minutes it goes up in flames.
Same reasoning.
Farmers have known for thousands of years that wet straw can spontaneously combust and you’re saying people can’t put a nail in their wall or install a new outdoor light?
What happens if you have a pinhole leak in a pipe?
First: don’t drill into walls from the outside if you don’t know what’s going on. True for all kinds of insulation. Wet polystyrene is also a disaster, albeit being not as fiery.
Second: don’t drill into pipes. For that there are regulations to. Where are conduits supposed to be located and therefore you know where (not) to drill. If it still happens it’s another human error and in my opinion as dangerous as nicking a powerline and creating a small glow (unlikely today thanks to gfci and such).
but to the larger point you made: i am sure that if you put a lot of straw in a pile and add water and wait and settle that it will generate heat. Composts come to mind. That takes a lot of thickness for the heat to overcome thermodynamic equilibrium and start to burn. Thr straw in the wall is sealed. But not for heat but air transit. As you can see in the picture of the article that wall has a thickness of about 50?cm, which is not enough to create that heat pile effect when wet. The heat would be dissipated, I am sure.
And what I am even more certain of is German regulations being overly thorough to the point of being anal. There is no way that this hasn’t been tested to death especially with the strong chemical company’s lobby here.
That’s what the permitting process is (theoretically) for: to ensure specific, potentially dangerous repairs and construction are done according to safety code.
Hypothetical situation: If you have to get a permit to do general contractor work, and the hole you find violates code, I would assume you would be expected to repair the hole. depending on the size of the hole (are we talking pinholes? Nails? How do you mount shit to a stud on a wall built out of haybales? Is the stud buried in the bale or extra thick to accommodate the thicker wall? I’ve never worked with one of these hay walls, the idea of them is so neat) I’d talk to the owner specifically about how I was repairing it so they could repair any other holes themselves, as that would likely not be the job I was hired to do. I haven’t worked construction since high school tho so ymmv.
in what world do people hire contractors that repair unnecessary things that are “required by code”?
maybe take that one to no stupid questions
People in construction know what they’re doing and in general know what they’re talking about.
Unfortunately, that excellently constructed home they spent so much effort on will still be sitting there in 5, 15, maybe 50 years from now. And all that time it’s definitely not getting all it’s proper maintenance, and will slowly be dropping in quality.
I doubt these buildings would go up hindenburg style, but after a decade or two of being lived in, fires will not be as easy to put out in a home like this.
Source: not a construction worker, but have worked in construction for a few years here and there and have been working with fire for several decades (and working to make fire safe to handle and trying to fireproof a couple garages)
And all that time it’s definitely not getting all it’s proper maintenance
That’s a human problem, not a problem with the material and would affect any home built with any material. Also, what kind of maintenance requires you to open up the walls?
I doubt these buildings would go up hindenburg style, but after a decade or two of being lived in, fires will not be as easy to put out in a home like this.
Anything to support this besides your assumptions? Straw has been in use for a very long time and, generally speaking, this statement doesn’t hold up.
a good material for a house will survive neglect.
Uh, I don’t think so. But maybe you can teach me something. Do you have an example of a structure that is exposed to the elements and doesn’t need Amy maintenance? while providing good living xonditions of course.
For certain definitions of good, they make these things called quonset huts. The metal ones aren’t half bad if you insulate the fuck out of them (reno winters aren’t that bad, but reno winters in a poorly insulated quonset hut? We had open jam sessions just to keep the building warm)
What an absolutely ridiculous statement to make. I can only assume you’re trolling.
not getting all it’s proper maintenance
So when my wife and I started dating, she had been given a car by a sister. That car had 150k miles on it and it got oil changes every 20k miles. In the 90s. Pre-synthetic oil.
Her family (aside from her oldest sister, who has been telling them all the same shit for decades) wonders why my/our cars have always been so nice, and I keep telling them “just keep it clean and do the recommended maintenance”. I don’t know if they think I’m keeping a secret or lying to them, but it’s that easy.
As I’ve primarily rented (nothing much beyond standard rental contracts except a couple double nets, but I knew the owners and they preferred me to their usual maintenance guy) I’m suddenly wondering if I have been forgetting to rotate my foundation or something.
are made from f30 material
I’m such a dork for rockwool it’s not funny.
Rockwoll is the worst. It handles poorly, it is not renewable, it is energy intensive to manufscture, if its older than 1970 it is likely manufactured with asbestos and most importantly it had those tiny scratch fairy’s that attack you for days to come.
I learned recently that the phase shift of rockwoll is terrible because of its low (thermal) mass. Meaning that it will become saturated rather quickly and then dissipates heat onwards. For a few years (20?) there has been an alternative made from wood fibre that is bound together by some degradable agent and impregnated with amonia salts (not great but loads better than the alternatives). it is recyclable as I’m the company picks up the offcuts and reuses them. But most importantly its high mass (15kg per m²?) Is perfect for home roof insulation because it keeps most of the absorbed energy for about 12 hours before it’s saturated. Keeping you cooler during the day and radiating inside and outside at night. Its called gutex and is very versatile.
Edit: it comes in fluffy and light style too as gutex thermowall. More like rockwoll I guess I can’t recommend it enough. There are generic manufacturers too I am sure.
I assume it’s cheaper and easier to build with, but is it as structurally sound?
It is usually in between timber frames. Standalone I haven’t encountered it.
Edit: it is foremost used because of the great insulation and room climate properties. Also it is renewable and local. So a bunch of pluses.
It’s also treated with a fire retardant.
Do you know if the straw is treated as well?
It can be, it was/is in Canada, treated for rodent resistance, so not hard to do flame too.
Straw has its own issues, if it gets wet, it can spontaneously combust. The heat from decomposition is enough, and it’s self oxidizing too iirc. It being sealed is what makes it easier, the heat can’t escape.
Treatment: thanks for the Info
Comvusrion: that’s news to me. I guess it needs to be very specific conditions for that to happen. If I know anything about German rules and regulations is that they are overly thourugh here and would have tested this to death. And there is a very strong insulation lobby by chemical companies here, so there is an incentive to stop these new (old?) techniques.
Edit: though about the combustion and the only thing that makes sense to me is a large mass where heat is trapped and has a runaway reaction like a compost.
Nah, they smolder, they don’t burn.
It does mean that if a fire is already started and gets past the burn temperature they basically just will burn themselves to ash but not spread
In a country that starting to have wildfire seasons.
Little pig little pig, let me in
I loved the Green Jelly version
That’s what I was thinking when I commented. I loved the video as a kid.
I still do, but I used to, too
Or i’ll roast you whole.
My Gluten allergy would never!
Well, just don’t eat the house!
Maybe I’m getting straw and hay confused (we have a lot of grass farmers in the area) but now I wonder if you built your haybale home out of, Idk, oat grass? It’d probably smell better than wheat grass. Or grass grass.
Way easier to blow down than shipping containers
“Brits, stop building straw homes, the wolf will blow them away!”
Even the Big Bad Wolf can’t cope with British NIMBYism.
He’ll huff and he’ll puff all he likes but nothing will stop Bernard and Mildred, 78 from organising the blocking of any building or demolition work within a dozen miles of the house they bought for £500 and half a pack of cigarettes in 1965.
Everybody’s talking about fire, likely due to London’s track record, but honestly I think this stuff is going to get soggy, mold, and fill with rot long before any reasonable structural lifespan.
Be a kid: scared of house burning down.
Be an old homeowner: scared of water, and house burning down would save me a lot of work, lol.
Straw has been used as a building material in England for maybe a thousand years. It used to be mainly used in roofing - thatching was a trade for a very long time, and you still see thatched houses in the countryside. Obviously it needs maintenance, and occasionally you’ll hear of a thatcher finding something ancient hidden away for centuries in the thatch.
Can’t say I understand how it works, but it’s a very effective means of building.
Roofing has constant air circulation.
Don’t forget spontaneous mice
You’re an idiot.
Natural fibre insulation provides excellent thermal and acoustic performance, creating more comfortable and energy-efficient living spaces. Made from eco-friendly materials such as hemp, wool, wood fibre, grass and cellulose, it regulates temperature effectively and prevents moisture buildup and mould. Its hygroscopic nature and breathability reduce the risk of condensation, contributing to a healthier indoor environment. With no harmful chemicals, it promotes better air quality and is safer to handle, promoting healthy indoor environments while improving the overall sustainability of buildings.
You could have said all that without being rude. I’ll give you a hint, leave insults to the vent end of the post. You cunt.
Here is my opinion on a matter that is based off my existing knowledge of a subject. I am not speaking as an expert on this subject.
“You fucking imbecile! You absolute scum-eating fool!”
I think you might need to work on your conversation skills mate.
https://agcrops.osu.edu/newsletter/corn-newsletter/2019-21/hay-and-straw-barn-fires-real-danger
You can be an ass and call him an idiot all you want but wet straw is a serious fire hazard.
Wet straw is a problem. Which is why you would use appropriate levels of sheathing moisture barriers and vapor barriers to manage the levels of humidity inside the building and inside the walls.
So it’s not a problem as long as you don’t need to hang a picture, install some lights, get into your wall for any reason, have a pipe leak, or ever have any pests.
Jesus Christ, you actually think you hang things directly on the straw 🤣
No. I think that straw insulation requires a complete seal and nails puncture that seal.
Or need to bake bread when pierre’s is closed
If you put it in a compost bin: composts
If you put it in an enclosed box with out sunlight: doesn’t compost
Make it make sense. Rather than assume the material resists moisture accumulation, we should be building structures in the assumption that moisture WILL accumulate without failure. Even wood, fiberglass, and drywall buildings fall apart too damn easily if nobody is around to keep the roof patched up and air circulating.
I thought y’all only built houses with brick and concrete.
That was ever since the first wolf incident, but it seems history is doomed to repeat itself.
I’ve been experimenting with antiwolf flora. Plant a shitton of
spookyspiky grass (okay maybe it can be a lil spooky) so wolfo gets papercuts trying to knock on the door and it sounds like an accordion when the wind blows, then email me your results at totallyyourgrannotawolf at MySpace dot org
And flammable insulation*.
But it says “inflammable” right there? I don’t understand!
The joke is in reference to the Grenfell Fire fallout a few years back, where a group of over a dozen contractors had to be investigated over improper fireproofing with insulation tied to a large number of buildings and developments.
Yes, and my joke is in reference to the fact that “flammable” and “inflammable” have the same meaning.
Is this joke too English for me?
How do you spell Curb?
What a country!
That seems like a lot more ecological than concrete, and is great insulation at same time
Signed - Mold and fire
The straw is finished over with lime or clay, which is breathable, but also seals it from moisture. And the straw by itself is more fire resistant than a traditional wood frame because the straw is dense and a couple feet thick
We normally use brick rather than wood frames for building here.
These materials have been used in construction for thousands of years, we know how to do ventilation and preventing water from getting there
Fire yes, but we can restrict the spread of fire to reduce the damage by not building like Norwegians
Ventilation used to come in the form of a fireplace and huge amounts of heat going out the chimney. Can’t really replicate that with modern systems unless you just want to lose a lot of energy in the process. Ventilation with heat recovery is probably the best replacement.
Then you get some people who don’t understand how energy use really works and turn the system off thinking it will save them money on their energy bills. Save 20p, get mould. Not sure if that was worth it but it happens a lot.
Its pain to work and to produce. As in the dust it sheds is horrible for the lungs plus very itchy on the skin. The production process is also more involved than harvest and drying of a byproduct of grain production.
At least it’s cellulose rather than the mineral and plastic dusts from working with conventional building materials. Human bodies have pretty much zero ability to break down the latter.
Great London fire part deux electric boogaloo
Warum liegt denn hier Stroh?
Warum hast du ne Maske auf?
deleted by creator
Knowing nothing about this whatsoever, what’s wrong with fiberglass insulation? The pink cotton candy kind.
The straw bales are a dense and almost structural. They also grow in the ground and require little in terms of manufacture cost and processing. Blown fiberglass is literally the opposite
nothing, except when you want to move a wall or drill an opening into it and suddenly you’re fucked with a toxic inhaled material in the air
Big Bad Canis
