It’s always better to stand for something than to “play it safe”.
Tbf odds are usually in favour of playing it safe, big spiralling scandals are the edge cases.
It is better to stand something from a moral point of view though, for sure.
Always choose the moral choice. History (if not the present) will vindicate you, and you’ll be able to sleep better at night.
People voting with their feet is a culture war when those who are in the wrong don’t like it.
Culture war? It is just people standing for occupied people
I flew home to see the family this weekend, down in the deep south. My brother picked me up from the airport and took me to a local pub for a burger and beer. I went for my second glass and two regulars at the bar were chatting with the bartender.
“Just don’t make it political. Keep politics out of it”, said one of the men to the bartender. “Fuck Robert Kraft”, I loudly replied. The bartender cocked a half smile before mentioning that they were just discussing how Kanye was able to tour again. “Some things in this world are forgivable like, apparently, ‘heil Hitler’”, I opined for the whole bar to hear.
Aghast, the avowedly apolitical regulars could only stare back at me. They seemed reluctant to defend a billionaire known for his bad behavior, and also recently for his collusion with his other rich pals to cancel a music act from playing at two stadiums overlapping Kanye’s recent tours.
“But, save the children? Well, that really depends on exactly which children”. I took my 6% ABV lager back to my table to resume half-hearted interest in my brother’s WoW guild and hype over the re-re-release of vanilla, or whatever.
It’s wild to me that people talk to strangers
Really? You’re doing it right now.
If you think I even graced those bozos with so much as a glance, you’re sorely mistaken, stranger. I was speaking to my bartender.
That’s more than fair. Unfortunately most bartenders are strangers as well
Can’t really avoid taking to him, ya know? And if you’re asking why I didn’t keep my mouth shut, recall the topic is a papered-over genocide.
Isn’t that what you’re commenting on Lemmy for?
Feels way scarier in real life
But I can Lemmy from home. Doesn’t count.
I really don’t understand the average person’s attachment to Israel, like I just don’t get it at all. It’s been obvious since this all started that it is a genocide. There’s no argument to be made against that. So why is picking a side so difficult?
Also, small rant: What is up with the world supporting Ukraine right off the bat but not Palestine?? Is it really as simple as racism? How can you support one but not the other?
Propaganda, very effective propaganda…
There’s a weird thing in evangelical circles that espouses undying support for Israel because in Revelations (I think) says that Jesus will come back when all of “God’s chosen people” return to Judea. So you get a lot of traditions lifted from Judaism, like the passover feast and shofars. I grew up in the Assembly of God church and all of the Deacons, my dad included, owned a shofar and would blow them when “the spirit was moving”. That’s where almost all of the Israeli support in the US comes from, in my opinion.
Hello, fellow A/G kid. My church didn’t have shofars – that actually sounds a lot cooler than just announcing that the spirit is moving.
I think you’re right about evangelical support for Israel. They think they’re hastening the End Times.
I’m so glad I got out of that entire scene. The rest of my youth group cohort are still faithful members, decades later.
You know what’s funny? It didn’t fully click to me just how methodical and devious Israel is until I realized that there were cookbooks in the 30s to teach European women moving to Palestine how to cook Palestinian food. How “Israeali” food is the only valid example of cultural appropriation I have ever heard. Literally erasing a people down to their fucking cuisine.
I mean what kind of people do that? How sick do you have to be? Yeah, genocide I know of course. The settlements of course. But to coopt food? I mean that is fucking sick in the head to a new level. I can’t explain it. I know it sounds ridiculous compared to lives being lost and land stolen. But there is something just so calculated in that simple act of taking something mundane even and calling it your own.
Speaking as a 47 year old former lib: The propaganda worked quite well on me until recently, like ten or so years ago.
If you do not look into it and educate yourself on the reality, it is easy to believe the idea that Israel is allowed to “defend itself” because, after the Holocaust, the Jews got together and decided not to take any more shit. The idea is that they occupied an empty desert in Palestine, called it Israel, and got attacked from all sides by the surrounding Arab states and would happily stop shooting if the Arabs stopped attacking them.
The second layer of propaganda says that it’s not that simple, that Israel kills more in response to these attacks than they should, but it’s still a complex situation and we westerners shouldn’t meddle with it because we are ignorant.
The truth finished landing on me around Oct 7, since I’d spent years at that point listening to actual Palestinian people, studying history, etc and knew that Israel was a brutal colonial project of apartheid that was becoming a proper theocracy, but was momentarily fooled by the false reports of brutality by Hamas fighters.
The first hospital bombing ended all sympathy for Israel.
This is what finished all doubt for me:
Jesus christ, this is why Chaim Potok’s Chosen used to be mandatory high school reading
I’m suspicious that there’s been a long term campaign to whitewash Israel for decades in western media. I don’t think I was really around for most of it, but the way that mostly older people I’ve spoken to regarding this with otherwise perfectly rational options on human rights get really weird about Israel. Most people my age or younger either don’t care or are horrified at what’s going on.
It feels like I’m encountering people that have a lot of unearned good faith in Israel and figure their actions must have justification. Part of it obviously would be WW2, but there’s a big weird unaccounted for goodwill that I could only assume would be a large scale whitewashing campaign.
Ukraine doesn’t have the equivalent Palestine>Hamas>Terrorism>Antisemitism cognitive chain established in most of the west.
So yes, as simple as racism, at base.
You are glossing over the fact that Hamas killed and kidnapped Israelian civilians. As far as reasons for war go “We want to free the hostages” is a pretty convincing one. Such a reason did not exist for Ukraine. Also I believe Ukraine is supported by “the West”, that is, a large part of the world does not care about Ukraine.
Obviously supporting the Israelian genocide in Gaza is stupid. But picking either Israel or Palestine as a side is problematic, especially if you assume Gaza to be controlled by Hamas: Both sides want the complete destruction of their “enemy” (although only one side has the means to actually achieve that). People don’t want to be affiliated with Hamas either.
The side I would like to pick is the one against nationalism, religious zealots and mindless revenge. If both countries could get rid of the war mongers that continue to pour oil on the fire, the people could actually live in peace.
Just to be clear: I support a two state solution with a free Palestine and a free Israel coexisting in peace.
Israel is a settler colonial power continuing colonization, Palestinians are the victim of it. It is simple as that. Other resistance movements committed ton of atrocities too, despite the allies atrocities we still by live they was the right side to support in world-war 2. The PA recognized israel and ended resistance, Israel thanked them by building more colonies. Hamas can’t survive after the end of colonization
Meh i agree that the situations aren’t the same but the hostage situation explanation just falls flat on its face as soon as you imagine people in your own country being involved on the side of the terrorists. We would not excuse bombing a whole fucking (white)country because some of them have taken hostages.
I fully agree that there are objective differences between the two conflicts but racism definetly plays a big part here if not bigger than the actual differences.
Israel literally bombed and killed those hostages. How can anyone still believe this is about freeing hostages.
Because most people do not follow the news very closely. They learn enough to form an opinion, often against their will, and then try their hardest to pay attention to things that don’t torpedo their mental health.
I don’t have a source to point at but I think the first trump admin, followed by covid, broke people. There is no good news and no clear action to take to make the bad news stop. So people tune out. Some news slips through with their FYP or whatever but even then what they get is predigested and filtered so that the emotion hits hard and goes away fast. The most popular form of media is designed not to inform, so people are not informed.
Do you remember when Israel killed three hostages that were walking towards the IOF with their hands up?
No. Most people don’t.
51 comments and 0 posts in 3y3m, and this is what you decide to comment? Hmm…
If both countries could get rid of the war mongers that continue to pour oil on the fire, the people could actually live in peace.
Just to be clear: I support a two state solution with a free Palestine and a free Israel coexisting in peace.
Which is somehow a controversial take for many.
There are people I personally recall saying things like “filthy israeli” and calling non white people regardless of their ethnicity “[nationality] terrorist” with usually the wrong nationality being called out, all the stereotypical jewish slurs, etc. yet now loudly “stand with israel” or call standing up for basic human rights antisemitism even though they never gave half a shit in the past and hated them just as much as everyone else different from them. Israel really played the long game.
Biblical prophecy? They don’t give an actual eff about it otherwise.
claiming Robert Kraft – owner of the New England Patriots – had pressured Sheeran by threatening to pull his stadium from the tour dates and urging other venues to do the same. Sheeran’s team confirmed multiple venues had objected to Macklemore staying on the bill
“The stakes for him would have been very, very high,” said Dorian Lynskey, the author of 33 Revolutions Per Minute: A History of Protest Songs. “Taking a stand meant potentially cancelling the rest of your tour, with all the refunds, people who work on the tour losing their work. It’s an enormous thing.”
Bragg also acknowledged the practical realities. “Undoubtedly Ed has contractual obligations, and he’d get sued and it would cost him money,” he said. “I can understand it.” But he believes Sheeran could have drawn a cleaner line between defending Macklemore’s right to speak and endorsing every word of it.
“He doesn’t have to come out and say ‘free Palestine’. Put purely on the grounds of free speech, he can say an artist must be able to express their view. He needs to let people know how he feels about billionaires deciding what can and can’t be said from a stage,” he said.
This thread is completely lacking nuance (as expected). The nuance isn’t about whether there’s a genocide (there obviously is) but rather what is expected of Ed Sheeran in this situation. You could make an argument that Sheeran taking a stance is worth the lost revenue/jobs, it’s just not as clear cut as people are making it out to be.
I mean, presumably Sheeran signed a contract with these venues and promoters with everyone knowing Macklemore was on the bill. I dunno why Sheeran would necessarily be going down for violation of contract here…
He could have just said “if you don’t want us to perform as planned then talk to my lawyers”
Maybe mentionning the words colonized, occupied and genocided and not acting like October 7 was an attack on Jews and not pretend it is where history started
There isn’t really any nuance, here. Ed Sheeran is absolutely zero danger, here, it’s not like he’s deep in poverty and has to weigh the morality of being a Walmart security guard against feeding his family. Bro just has to go “you are mad about someone speaking out against obvious genocide and I will not be attaching my name to yours.”
He literally just has to go “ok, fuck you then” and go home. Everyone else did, he’s just a huge loser.
A rich person can’t be bought. If they do something evil, they’re doing it for love of the game.
Are you saying Ed Sheeran is evil? Because that seems extreme. All he did was not say publicly he is against the genocide. It’s fucked up, but not evil. Otherwise most of the population is evil.
He became evil when he did the bidding of a Pro-genocide billionaire. He had the resources to say “Fuck you” and walk while paying off all the crews for the remainder of his tour when he was told to remove an anti-genocide artist from his tour and he didn’t.
When the wealthy and powerful are cowards in the face of evil, they’re part of the evil.
Wait a second. That’s all he did? Nonsense. The whole story exists because he booted Macklemore… Turns out he was slightly active in supporting genocide.
He would be fine. He could never perform again and still never have to work. However, those concerts provide a lot of jobs. The tour getting canceled impacts the livelihood of many more than him. People would be out jobs, and genocide would still be happening.
That’s a really flimsy argument, though. He could pay them, and not even notice. It would be church change to him.
Across the span of a tour, it could easily be $100-$150 million in salaries for all the job, possibly much more. He could afford to pay those salaries once (if he could magically make his net worth liquid), but if the possibility of future tours was canceled as well, there would be more opportunity cost.
To be clear, if he truly cared abput people he wouldn’t be as rich as he is. My opinion is that he should have taken a stance. But I am saying it really isn’t as clear cut. Regular people’s lives would absolutely be impacted, especially as the economy further declines.
Just saw Gorillaz on their first show of The Mountain tour.
Damon Albarn held up a Palestinian flag, draped it over his shoulder, then declared, “It’s time to pick a side.”
It’s just that simple to not be a bitch.
My daughter is going to her first concert with her Gramma, she picked gorillaz for the first, and now I couldn’t be happier 😁
It’s just that simple to not be a bitch.
It is for most people. But it’s also 100% reasonable to say his position is more complicated. Let’s say Ed Sheeran goes out there with a Palestinian flag. Venues would overwhelmingly pull their location for the tour, doing so would likely violate contracts, the tour would ultimately be cancelled, and who knows how many people just lost the income they were depending on. He did not handle the situation correctly, but calling it simple is absurd. This was also all expressed in the article.
Ed Sheeran’s fat ass ain’t goin’ hungry because he missed a tour. And if he does starve to death, then good riddance to that level of utterly stupid.
Humanity - or lack thereof in this case - is quite black and white.
Of course Ed Sheeran is fine. He never has to work a day in his life if he didn’t want to. I was talking about all the other jobs being provided to regular people that would lose some of their income. You cannot deny the actions of these celebrities influences the livelihood of those workong for them, and those that would work at events for them
All the backup musicians also pulled out in solidarity with Macklemore, including Sheeran’s band. They all had a lot more to lose than Sheeran did
I doubt his roadies will have to look hard for new work if they want it. He’s not exactly a small name to have worked for. Yeah its unfortunate but also maybe don’t align with a jackass and expect everything to go well for you.
Venues remain open no matter if fat ginger bitch plays them or not, they host shows and events all the same. Minus one flaccid cockstain isn’t going to be anything more or less than an unexpected night off for venue workers. Maybe they love it, maybe they could have used the hours, life goes on all the same. He isn’t nearly as big an economic force as, I dunno, Jeff Bezos.
Writers strikes are far more difficult for regular people than canceling one ugly pussy bitch.
Even noted cunt Damon Albarn gets it
Damon Albarn is a dick but he’s usually been more on the right side of things than not. Demon Days is straight up an anti-climate change album.
Anti climate change as in he doesn’t believe in it or as in we need to stop climate change?
As in we need to stop it. It’s hard to read songs like O Green World and Fire Coming Out of the Monkey’s Head in any other way.
How is he a noted cunt. I am out of the loop on him.
Huge ego, treats people like shit.
I personally only knew his music until the other day. While I don’t doubt that sort of history in his youth, at this particular show he came across as very warm and humble. His band is from all over the world and has every adult generation represented. He specifically thanked the Americans for making his life of global travel and playing music for stupid amounts of money a waking dream rather than just a dream.
The guy I saw on stage - and I’m not so naive as to ignore that aspect of it, but still - seemed to be genuinely grateful for what he’s got and implored everyone to take nothing for granted.
And also to sing along with the keyboard bits and to vote.
So, a regular celebrity
Just saw Gorillaz on their first show of The Mountain tour.
That can’t be. I saw them on The Mountain back in June. But yeah, Damon’ll show them how it’s done.
All I know is he said this was his first stop, first show here in Orlando. Maybe he meant this leg of the tour?
Either way, fantastic show.
Could be for the US part of the tour? I saw them at a festival in Italy. And yeah, brilliant. Next day was Nick Cave who was even more spectacular live.
E: Enjoying listening to The Mountain again now that I’d barely played since before that event. It’s pretty good.
the defeated and cancelled zionist entity sheeran loves to mysogynise the intifada and thanks you for your hard work
folk rock has never been more relevant. the first stop on the gaza metro is intifada circus
Dafuq you smokin’ and who sold it so I know who to avoid.
It’s not a fucking culture war. Either you believe in morality or you don’t ffs.
Calling it a culture war is so depressing. It’s basically making explicit: yes the genocide is happening, but politics is about how you feel about it and what words you use.
so how often do you do some jewish fancy dress?
What?
Ignore that user he is a known genocide supporter
He was “appalled by the conflict”, he wrote, adding that the “suffering and pain caused on both sides” was “a human tragedy”
This little shit literally “both sides” this genocide?!? Wow.
I could see that argument being used in the weeks after the October attacks, but after nearly three years of intensive systematic genocide?
Fuck off with that shit.
You can’t be for and against genocide. Either you are evil or you are not.
No, but you can be against genocide and also against the oct attacks.
It’s been more than a quarter of a decade since then, and in that time Israel has consistently been committing worse atrocities on a weekly basis. Trying to both-sides the genocide now by bringing up October 7th is like trying to both-sides the Holocaust by bringing up the Warsaw ghetto uprising.
Just to recap what we may have forgotten:
- Netanyahu knew the attack was coming.
- IDF forces (that Hamas had planned to attack) were unaccountably withdrawn from the area when it started.
- A lot of the deaths and destruction at the kibbutzes were the result of IDF fire.
- In the Hamas videos, a lot of the attackers seemed confused and put off by finding civilians rather than soldiers as their targets.
Now, not to get all conspiracy-brained, but I have to wonder whom to condemn for the Oct. 7th civilian death toll.
That a narrative. And it is a bit conspiracy brained, tbh. I totally believe that Netanyahu allowed the attack, just like Bush/Chaney allowed the Sept 11 attacks. They knew an action was imminent and wanted it as an excuse. I think neither knew of the scope. I don’t buy the ‘we didn’t think our targets were supposed to be civilians but we killed them anyway’ excuse. And you’re ignoring the constant missiles being fired indiscriminately at Israel civilians. Regardless, Israel has overreacted to such an extent that is not an reaction but a separate action of malice. I believe they have lost their right to exist as a country in its current form.
And you’re ignoring the constant missiles being fired indiscriminately at Israel civilians.
Israel has consistently been killing Palestinian civilians for decades.
Israel has overreacted
Israel has been attempting to ethnic cleanse Palestine for over fifty years
At some point the October attacks stopped being anything but an excuse.
I remember reading about them and thinking; “damn, the response will be BAD”, and as the days turned into weeks turned into months turned into years of constant brutal systematic violence, Israel quickly lost all my sympathy they got from the attacks.
I have held no special love for the Palestinians, nor Israel for that matter, but Israel is doing it’s best to make sure to show everyone just how little sympathy they deserve.
I agree 100%. I actually think that Israel has lost its right to exist in its current form. Of course one might say that about the U.S. also.
I don’t know if I would go that far, though, to be honest, we have tried a two state solution for several decades, without any real success, what about a single state solution?
Eh, doubt it would make much of a difference to be honest…
I don’t know, seems kinda pointless to keep fighting over some sand, yeah yeah, I know it is about for more than that, but to an outsider that is kinda what it seems like
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Ed Sheeran has watched multiple murders happening, but refused to report them on the grounds that he “didn’t want to be political”.
When others tried to speak, he stopped them, saying “I just don’t want to be political!”.
Ed Sheeran is not a safe person to be around.
Yeah, hiding behind a job is nonsense. Imagine me saying “sorry man, I don’t talk about big issues because I drive a forklift Monday to Friday”.
I miss driving a forklift
At least you can speak freely now.
Looks like Ed can go fuck himself.
One important party which manages to stay out of the crosshairs is Wasserman talent agancy whom Ed is signed with. Many other prominent mainstream artists who never speak out for Palestine like Kendrick Lamar are signed with them. Now you know why they never speak out.
I don’t think a grown adult can be absolved of responsibility because of that either, though. Everybody who speaks up takes on risk and losses. He’s better positioned than most people on the planet.
But yeah, good to be aware of Wasserman.
You are right, it is not about absolving Ed Sheeran. This is about showing that everyone who has signed with Wasserman talent agency does not speak up for Palestine. Thus everyone with Wasserman talent agency should be questioned. Or "THE-TEAM as it is called now since the rebrand.
Agreed. We shouldn’t let them hide behind anyone.
As Jupiderbaal pointed out on TikTok, Sheeran wanted the credit for the anti-genocide stance without taking any risk. He has seen it work for others (even Taylor Swift of all people). He was unlucky and the plan backfired this time.
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he so ugly you could press his face in the dough and make gorilla cookies.
