Apparently pre-rinsing confuses the dishwasher or something. Not doing it leaves me with residue all over the other dishes though 🤷
You must log in or # to comment.
I have an old (must be 20yo) budget bench dishwasher and never have any issue with anything not being clean. Never done pre-wash and often overpack it.
People who saw the TC video reading this post:
Gotta run that water till its hot, and use the powder, brother.
Again with this America-centric view
My dishwasher literally doesn’t have a pre-rinse cycle, the first wash is the main one with the powder, so I get to avoid this whole conundrum! By which I mean, I do quickly wash them by hand if there’s any obvious gunk, and no one would realistically tell me not to.
To those curious, it’s this countertop one: https://www.midea.co.il/product/mdwmt030sw-w-il (couldn’t find a product page in any other language)
The compartment for the detergent has no lid, so the powder drops as soon as you close it.
It also does not have anywhere to put rinse aid, but a bottle of some was included when I bought it new. Great attention to details.
By which I mean, I do quickly wash them by hand if there’s any obvious gunk, and no one would realistically tell me not to.
The whole point of this topic is that you’re not supposed to have to do that 😅
I never pre-rinse and I never have any problems. Not using pods and adding soap to the pre-wash cup as per the manufacturer instructions made the real difference.
Using regular dish soap for this will end up in a disaster.
Edit: Lol, what kind of idiot downvoted this. Go ahead, use regular dish soap in a dish washer, and PLEASE report back. XD
Detergent = soap but you’re right, regular dish soap does not belong in the dishwasher and will result in a huge mess.
My dispenser door is permanently jammed Open,so i had to reluctantly Switch to pods for the Timed Release. Powder is better imo.
Watch the video someone else posted in this thread. It briefly touches on timed release pods. They tested and the whole thing disolves at once, within seconds.
Don’t bother. Delayed release is bullshit. Just dumping powder in there should get the same result.
If you haven’t cleaned your filter recently I will recommend you double check it. It’s probably not it, but it’s an easy thing to check
“It’s probably not it”? After 30 years of dishwater experience I am convinced that it’s always the filter.
Ok fair, it’s almost certainly a factor here, but may not be the only cause
Pre-rinsing is the hill I’m willing to die on.
Look up the turbidity sensor
Skill issue.
Obligatory Technology Connections video insert
To the top. Was looking for this linkeroo
You made it before me sir!
I tried the powder thing. Couldn’t get the hang of it. Back to pods and I’m more than satisfied. I trust Alex implicitly, it’s clearly an “operator error,” but that’s where I’m at.
I used powder for years and it worked okay. However I was always cleaning my filter and the inside of my dishwasher seemed a bit grungy. On a whim I decided to try one of the most expensive pods. The difference was night and day. My dishwasher looks much better, and now when I clean the filter there’s barely any gunk. Some of the pods definitely have more effective product (enzymes?) that the powder doesn’t have.
Were you using the expensive powder?
I’d be curious to know how you’re washing in a way that makes you feel pods are better.
I used to be a pod person (ha), but after alwx’s video, I experimented and found that by adding powder to the door (along with the actual soap part, obv) and running the hot tap before starting the load makes them come out great (most of the time - oatmeal is my nemesis).
The hot water was the big thing for me. I don’t see a noticeable performance difference between the pods and the powder, but the pods are easier with a small enough cost difference over time that it might as well be zero.
But the hot water is clutch.
I did the usage cost at my house, The powder was less than half the cost for what I use and my local prices.
But half of what? Half of cheap is still cheap.
Half of cheap is cheaper. Shit compounds when you have a handful of these savings.
Bingo, I buy dry goods in bulk. Soap, rice, flour… cost so little to produce even buying the smaller bulk packages can save a significant portion of your grocery bill. The only stuff I buy from the grocer is perishables and frozen.
A $7 box of pancake mix costs about $1 to make from bulk ingredients.
A 1.30 box of rice-a-roni costs a little over 0.50 cents to make.
Mac and cheese, same deal,
If you can stash a few large bags, or split the cost with your neibors/fam you can cut out a huge chunk of your food cost, end up with stuff that’s healthier and tastier and not locked in to 1 of 4 flavors.
Making pancakes looks like this:
get out a spoon, any small/medium spoon. n heaping spoonfulls of flour, n-2 heaping spoonfulls of sugar, a pinch of salt, 2 if you’re making a more than a few cups. 1 level spoon of baking powder. (2 if you’re feeding an army) Add water and stir until it comes off the spoon in ribbons. Too much water? add a level spoon of flour and mix until it comes off in ribbons.
For waffles, add some oil, another spoon of baking powder, a few drops of vanilla extract.
rice-a-roni is just rice and spaghetti, lightly browned in oil the boiled off with bullion, maybe some light veggies.
50% is 50% it scales linerally.
82 Cascade pouches at bulk cost me $30 75 oz of Cascade powder costs me $6
that’s $0.09 per wash for powder and $0.37 cents per wash for pouches.
I don’t really consider $30 to be cheap… and it turns out it’s 1/3 as much not 1/2
How often do you use your dishwasher?
I use mine about 2-3 times a week, so if we go with 3 that’s saving like 40 bucks a year, assuming perfect measurements and no spilling of the powder. That’s not enough of a difference to fret over.
It was purely me not getting the hang of the amount of powder. I also have a lot of plasticware (kids), and so it amplified the residual issue.
The problem is that I have zero issues with pods. I out in pod, turn on, close door, and that’s that. It’s the lack of problems, and the fact that powder requires some fine tuning, that had me lose interest in it.
And I basically scrape food matter off plates and load them in. Only time I ever rince is when we have lots of tiny food matters on plates and it’ll be a pain in the ass to scrape each individually into the garbage, where a jet of hot water will blast them into the strainer ezpz.
So yeah, I’m running the dishwasher daily, and for me I need the path of least resistance.
Most dishwashers have a pre-rinse program, adds ~5min to the duration. It does get rid of lime residue.
I was ready to riot if I didn’t see TC in the comments.
I was shocked that I had the opportunity to post it, to be honest.
It’s funny cause i was just talking about this video the other day with someone who didn’t know you have to run the tap hot before starting the machine. It’s just such a good video.
That depends on how far from your machine your hot water heater is, and if your machine compensates for water temp with a heating element or discharging cold water until the temp increases but as a general rule: yeeuh
If you run the tap hot first you get hot water in the pre-wash cycle. A lot of machines don’t use the heating coil for the pre-wash.
It also only matters when your dishwasher is hooked up to warm water in the first place. (In Germany) I’ve only ever seen them connected to cold water.
Even if yours has a heating element it’s a good idea to preheat the water. This is covered in the TC video
I wonder if this could be done by the dishwasher with a temp sensor and program at the start of each load (run until hot, drain, start wash). i assume it would hurt their water efficiency claims to dump a bunch of water down the drain at the start of the wash though
US dishwashers often do have a wimpy heating element. It gets used if you have a setting for extra hot water or a sani-rinse cycle. It wouldn’t be a big deal to have the dish washer heat it’s own water, but it would require either running a 220V circuit to the machine to make it practical or put up with a very long wash cycle.
Though frankly, washing in cold water is fine as long as you scrub well enough. But you do need to do the rinsing in very hot water to finish the job.
Edit to add - I didn’t explain the extra heating to the water well enough. The wimpy heating element doubles to do extra heating of the water and is used for the drying cycle.
It doesn’t have to, just put a heatig element in it. Most dishwasher I’ve seen only hook up to cold water, so running the tap is not going to do anything.
That was fantastic, thanks!
Some of the key things were to put separate powder in for the pre-wash (mine doesn’t have a separate pre-wash section as far as I can tell), and to not put so much detergent in. We have soft water, and apparently that means if you fill the thing up (or use a tablet/pod) then you might be using too much detergent which means it might not all come off in the final rinsing stage.
mine doesn’t have a separate pre-wash section as far as I can tell
Then you can just dump the pre-wash detergent directly in.
Yeah I got that from the video, just throw it in since it’s the first cycle anyway.
Tips I’ve learned that helped:
- use detergent powder instead of pods. It let’s you experiment with different amounts and dial in the right amount for a run. Generic is fine, they all do about the same amount of work.
- Run your faucet till hot water comes out, it makes it so the pre-rinse has more ability to soften crud on the surface of the dishes.
- pre-rinsing the dishes isn’t necessary for cleanliness, but scraping food bits off will mean your debris filter fills up slower so you don’t have to do the gross task of emptying it as often.
- add detergent in the dip on the door. This gives the pre-wash yet again more ability to attack food bits on the first cycle.
- USE RINSE AID. I helps the dishes dry at the end of the wash.
- Run your faucet till hot water comes out, it makes it so the pre-rinse has more ability to soften crud on the surface of the dishes.
Why would this matter? Dishwashers aren’t connected to the hot water line.
Seems like some American dishwashers are connected to the hot water line. Probably because the power available from a standard electrical outlet can’t heat fast enough.
I use the “warm up the water” time to rinse dishes as I load them. Seems silly to say “Don’t rinse your dishes but do run your water until hot.” Block that sink and use that water!
Running your faucet only makes sense if your dishwasher is also hooked up to warm water. (In Germany) I’ve only seen them connected to cold water.
It’s an American thing. Our dishwashers get hot water from the line, there is a heating element, but it is not very powerful due to our lower output electrical sockets.
I’ve heard other countries have washers that are powerful enough to heat their own water, which is why they are attached to the cold water supply.
Do your dishwashers not have different temperature programs? Tap water is generally set at 65ºC here. My dishwasher has a 45ºC program, a 50ºC program, etc. Depending on how dirty your dishes are you can use lower-temp program to save energy. They even make dishwasher pods specifically for lower temperatures. If it always takes in hot water it would need a way to cool it down.
Interesting. Why? Do the dishwashers there require only using cold?
In the US, it is always meant to be connected to the hot tap. The first rinse cycle doesn’t heat the water (or doesn’t run long enough for the heater to make it hot, anyway). It depends on the hot water from the line to be maximally effective that first rinse. And once drained and refilled for the wash, the water will get up to temp eventually, but it’s more effective if it starts hotter.
Much the same reason as electric kettles not being as popular in low-voltage countries as in Europe - with higher domestic voltage, the appliance itself can heat the water it uses in a timely manner.
Of all the things. Like what the fuck Germany.
A lot of houses are older than the concept of central heating or running warm water, so there are some homes that don’t have central warm water, but instead small heaters under the kitchen sink/next to the bathroom, which might or might not hook up to dishwashers
We have 230VAC instead of your guys’ puny 120V, so our dishwashers aren’t handicapped out of the box and can heat their own water. I feel like having to run the tap before doing dishes is an L for the US, not Germany/Europe?
For a country that’s all about doing things big, they sure whimped out on their electrical system
In our defense we were very early to having one and everyone was afraid of electricity at the time
I was gonna say in our defence most of us can’t be trusted with high voltage
Electricity in the usa is not weaker than Europe. Since the voltage is half as high, it just takes double the current to do the same work. A heater running 220v at 5 amps and a heater running 110v 10 amps will work exactly the same.
Do you run the water in your sink until it’s hot before turning on the dishwasher? Most kitchens are set up so they use the same water line, and starting with cold water if you don’t do it will make it clean worse.
That’s a thing with diswashers in North America, but not in Europe. In Europe, dishwasher are almost always connected to the cold water line only. OP seems to be posting from New Zealand, I don’t know how they handle it.
It’s handled like that in North America, because their mains electricity doesn’t output enough juice to operate a water boiler at a reasonable speed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country
So I imagine, in pretty much the rest of the world, it works like you described for Europe…
We don’t need high voltage actually. By pumping cold water through the block of an honest American diesel V8, it can be heated quickly. Every house includes one for this purpose. I love the sound of it starting in the morning to heat water for my shower.
You haven’t lived until you showered from a v12!
I mean you could get a 240V line to your dishwasher in North America since a split phase 240V is what comes into the house. I’d rather the 240V water heater just do it instead.
We also have a lot of cheapish, natural gas in northern climates, so you can heat your dishwasher with gas that way if it’s cheaper.
Different electrics, so their in-built heaters can (and are built to) operate from the cold water line.
NA dishwashers do have a heating coil, but most are only hooked to the hot water line, so that the wimpy heater doesn’t have to do quite as much work or at least doesn’t have to work as quickly.
We use the the same heating element that runs the drying cycle to add extra heat to the incoming water. It works, but it isn’t enough to add all the heat needed to start from cold fast enough.
Confirming, connected to cold water here in NZ.
Interestingly, where I live I have never, ever seen a dishwasher installed with a hot water line. Even the cheapest dishwashers heat their own water, and around here we apparently always plumb them to the cold water for some reason, even though I’m sure plumbing to hot water would at least save time if not get better results.
I’m the opposite. All I’ve known is direct connection to the household hot water tank. The dishwashers all have a “Heat Boost” option which activates an element inside to add more heat if you want, but generally hot water tanks are kept about 57°C, I’ve never in my life used the heat boost setting. That’s for sterilization.
I just watched through the video someone else posted, and connecting to the hot water line seems to be a North America thing. Presumably due to the 110v power supply taking a really long time to heat.
Spot on with 110v. Using an electric kettle in NA is slow af
Ah, hello fellow Technology Connections viewer!
It can depend on your dishwasher.
Fancier ones have heating elements to control the temperature.
Obligatory obstinance: if that was important to the process why does the machine not handle it?
That said, I do run the water until it is hot. Typically to wash the dishes that require hand washing like my nonstick pans.
It can, but the water heater in your building/house is a better heater than the dinky one built in to the machine
I think they’re asking why does the machine not purge the line to make sure there’s hot water. Why do I have to run the hot water faucet until it’s hot when the machine could just do that and then drain the cold water?
would make things more complicated - you now have to add an extra pathway from the waterline directly to the drain with an extra thermal sensor, or else you flush the pre-wash detergent down the drain.
That would significantly increase the amount of water the machine utilizes, which would push it out of alignment with efficiency regulations. There are a ton of people who don’t care about this and who wouldn’t want to use the extra water
It wouldn’t waste more water, just more would go through the machine. If the pre-heating is necessary for it to work properly, the regulations need to take that into account, since that water is being wasted whether the operator runs it from the tap or the machine does it automatically.
Most people don’t run their hot tap prior to running their dishwasher. It’s really only if you notice an issue with your dishes being fully cleaned that you would even need to do it
That’s why I said “If”
This was on QI.
The enzymes in the dishwasher tablets need some dirt to glom onto, to be able to work. So pre-rinsing can make them less effective.
If that were true, dishwashers wouldn’t start with a pre-rinse before the detergent goes in?
Pre rinse recycles the water. So the fats and such the enzymes work on are still there to help the process.
Nah, someone else posted a video that goes through it in detail. The pre-rinse is 10 mins (depending on dishwasher) of splashing plain water around and around to get the grubbiest bits off, then it dumps the prerinse water and gets clean water for the main cycle where the detergent goes in.
One of the key tips in the video was to add detergent in the prerinse detergent section (some open section that lets it go in straight away), or if your dishwasher doesn’t have one then just straight on the door or in the bottom. Just a small amount so the pre-rinse cycle has detergent in it so can get more off before the main cycle.
The only thing I’ve found about putting dishes in dirty is that some fancy dishwashers on the “auto” setting will sense how dirty the pre-rinse water is and set an appropriate wash cycle. If you’ve pre-rinsed, then it won’t find much and will put it on a light cycle. This can lead to dishes not being clean if they are actually really dirty but you rinsed off the loose stuff already. But it can be worked around by just setting the cycle instead of leaving it on auto.
The QI monkeys are just buzzing around on the net finding factoids for the show, you can often find untrue or misrepresented ones.
Use prewash detergent
Powder detergent only for both washes
Stack the dishwasher according to the manual
Don’t leave your dishes for a week before putting them in the dishwasher
You can only choose one of the four
I’m in this comment and I don’t like it
