In an attempt to better understand Lemmy I’m wondering if some of you can shed a light on what the deal is between.ml and .world. The history, any significant event or a betrayal, how did we all run away from spez only to come here and throw mud at each other?

I’m sure it confuses a great deal of Reddit refugees who just signed up with the largest instance because of (in my case future proofing) reasons.

I’m wondering how this historic feud came to be and how I can be called a “Zionist” just because of my instance, and they are called “fascists” even though I’ve come across some pretty levelheaded people from that instance too.

Please, keep it civil!

I’m not trying to start a fight or mud slinging, it would be good if several people could say their piece and nobody shame or attack them for it no matter how much you disagree.

Thanks

  • asudox (only for mod, alt)@lemmy.worldM
    75·
    15 小时前

    I’ll be locking this post, as I know for a fact that nothing but debates (which generate a flood of reports) happen with these .ml questions. I hope 197 comments is enough for you.

    You can find info on .ml (and probably even .world) and their behaviour in other comms, such as !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works.

    !fediverselore@lemmy.ca (even though it is currently locked) also has some info, if your instance has the posts.

  • cm0002@lemy.lol
    231·
    17 小时前

    I think my crossposting explainer should suit, in general, admins of .ml are Tankies (authoritarian communists) who support and defend authoritarian countries in all the things they do like Russia, NK and China.

    They propagate Russian propaganda on Ukraine (They’re just being “liberated”), deny chinas genocides and NK is actually truly a socialist country and it’s authoritarianism is just western propaganda.

    The megathread linked below documents and has a more robust explainer

    You’ll get banned for showing support for Ukraine or going against Russian narratives or if you remind them of Putlers promise to not invade or just shit talking Putler in general

    Or calling out propaganda sites - https://lemmy.world/post/32776038 | https://lemmy.world/post/33416433 | https://lemmy.world/post/34051329 | https://lemmy.world/post/35919522

    Or so much more, I actually haven’t updated the megathread in a few months, but there’s more recent stuff on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works

    Join the lemmy.ml boycott today and help foster a better Lemmy-verse! No more posts, comments (except to counter their propaganda ofc!) or upvotes on any comms on the Lemmy.ml instance! To make this easy you can do an instance block at Settings > Block Tab > Scroll to bottom > Input “lemmy.ml” and apply And consider donating to individual instances instead.

    Why am I cross-posting .ml content?

    I cross-post from .ml to the nearest relevant non-.ml comm to reduce the influence of .ml comms and indirectly, the instance as a whole, to help vitalize non-.ml comms and make it an easier decision for other instance admins to defederate because one key reason I identified that admins don’t want to defederate is because .ml still has some very large comms and some active niche comms.

    Megathread on the issue

    Some highlights from the link:

    Dessalines, head .ml admin, lead Lemmy dev actively spreading genocide denialism https://sh.itjust.works/post/61371958

    .ml admin, Nutomics continued transphobia https://lemmy.world/post/29222558 The original transphobic Comment from Nutomic: https://lemmy.world/post/18236068

    “If you don’t support Russia then you just don’t understand geopolitics” ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/27352415

    "Don’t worry guys, the Uyghur Genocide was REALLY just birth control! ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/30580167

    “See! nobody died IN Tiananmen Square, just AROUND it, so it doesn’t count!!” ~ Davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/30673342

    “NK is actually good and anything counter to that is Western propaganda!” ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/31595035

    General negative sentiment to other instances who haven’t “seen the way” yet ~davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/27426510

    And so so much documentation on clear heavy handed censorship and bias also on the link. So much I can’t even put them all here because this comment would be really long.

    I believe the behavior of its admins (the main admins are Lemmy devs) does harm to the overall growth of the Lemmy-verse and maybe even the Thrediverse (since Lemmy kinda kicked off the Thrediverse) because of its association with the devs of Lemmy and their insistence to use .ml as their personal political platform to spread harmful propaganda

    On the outside, bringing up Lemmy frequently leads to comments like “Lemmy? Isn’t that the place with a bunch of tankies?” Or “Tried Lemmy, but found it full of pro Russia crap so I left”. The best way forward from that I see is to either widely defederate from .ml like the rest of the Triad, or pressure them to put a fair and unbiased as possible admin team.

  • Sergio@piefed.socialEnglish
    27·
    18 小时前

    “See, the problem is, that this is the fediverse,” the Cat said. “You are now among weird people.”
    “But I don’t want to be among weird people here,” OP remarked.
    “Oh, you can’t help that,” said the Cat: “we’re all weird here. I’m weird. You’re weird.”
    “How do you know I’m weird?” said OP.
    “You must be,” said the Cat, “or you wouldn’t have come here.”

    • 🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4·
      17 小时前

      “Fish!” said Cat.
      The machine responded, “Today’s fish is Trout a la Creme. Enjoy your meal!”
      Cat then said, “Fish!”
      “Today’s fish is Trout a la Creme. Enjoy your meal!” said the machine.
      “Fish!” exclaimed Cat.
      “Today’s fish,” said the machine, “is Trout a la Creme. Enjoy your meal!”
      Cat replied, “Fish!”
      The machine cheerily replied: “Today’s fish is Trout a la Creme. Enjoy your meal!”
      “Fish!” Cat repeated.
      “Today’s fish is Trout a la Creme. Enjoy your meal!” dutifully replied the machine.
      Once again, Cat cried “Fish!”
      The machine again said, “Today’s fish is Trout a la Creme. Enjoy your meal!”
      Said Cat: “I will!”

  • ShellMonkey@piefed.socdojo.comEnglish
    876·
    22 小时前

    Instances tend to be flavored towards certain groups of people. There are a particular group of 3 instances, one being Lemmy.ml the others known as hexbear and lemmygrad that cater to people who essentially think that all western society is corrupt and that NK, China, Russia, etc are the saviors of the world.

    lemmy.ml happens to be the flagship instance of the software creators which causes a lot of friction in terms of if they should be cut off or not.

    • taco_shale032@lemmy.ml
      132·
      22 小时前

      The only reason I’m on .ml is because one of the communities I wanted to subscribe to was blocked on .world

      • GreatWhiteBuffalo41@slrpnk.netEnglish
        11·
        21 小时前

        .ml was my first instance. That account is 1 month older than this one. I found slrpnk by accident and it fit my community better so I switched. I learned about the drama after lol.

          • Carl@anarchist.nexusEnglish
            2·
            20 小时前

            Out of curiosity, why not make an account on one of the anarchist flotilla instances?

            • taco_shale032@lemmy.ml
              3·
              18 小时前

              .ml was another instance I was already aware of at the time, back then I didn’t know people formed opinions based on which instance you’re with either

              • Carl@anarchist.nexusEnglish
                91·
                17 小时前

                It’s more about recognizing what kind of biases the user will likely be approaching a given topic with. .ml users obviously tend to skew towards viewing world events through a very specific lens, which then goes on to color how they interact with the rest of the fediverse.

                The funny part is that when you’re a .ml user on .ml, it looks like smooth sailing and calm waters. Discussion is civil and friendly, and dissent all lands within a very specific Overton window. But once you start digging deeper, you realize it’s because the entire instance is extremely heavily moderated. It looks like everyone agrees because dissent outside of that tiny bandwidth quickly gets silenced. So as long as .ml users stay on their instance, things tend to be pretty chill.

                This ironically leads to friction when those .ml users end up on external instances, because the .ml admins can’t moderate those as heavily. Plus those external users have likely seen and/or experienced the heavy-handed moderation firsthand. So they immediately assume .ml users are complicit and intentionally staying in their bubble, instead of simply being unaware.

    • Maeve@kbin.earth
      1014·
      20 小时前

      We make an attempt at seeing things from invaded states’ views.

    • Calfpupa [she/her]@lemmy.mlEnglish
      1439·
      21 小时前

      Interesting misrepresentation of those three instances, I’d better phrase it as “users on the three support countries that directly undermine western Imperialism when forced to choose between western imperialism or other countries.” Virtually all members there understand “critical support,” which is when you support a cause overall but are still critical of aspects of it.

      • spankysalmon@fedinsfw.appEnglish
        7·
        17 小时前

        Ahh yes, undermine western imperialism. Unashamedly deepthroat Russian/Chinese imperialism. You are very smart!

      • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
        257·
        21 小时前

        Virtually all members there understand “critical support,” which is when you support a cause overall but are still critical of aspects of it.

        I don’t think that could be further from the truth.

        • Maeve@kbin.earth
          37·
          16 小时前

          I think you’re do propagandized, you wouldn’t know truth if you look it in the face, as evidenced by your comments.

          • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
            174·
            20 小时前

            Years of direct personal experience at this point, the vast majority I’ve interacted with have been pathologically idealistic and manichean. Maybe I just happen to interact with an extremely vocal minority, maybe. But in any case “virtually all” is patently ridiculous.

            • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
              98·
              20 小时前

              if someone is constantly running into bad faith attacks against socialist states and cold war propaganda, they’re going to tend to lead with defense rather than internal critique. that’s not the same as having no critique.

            • Calfpupa [she/her]@lemmy.mlEnglish
              711·
              20 小时前

              Interesting, because my 4 years of experience I have found less than 5, which is why I said “virtually none.” Have you considered that maybe your own actions have caused people to galvanize against your opinions? Many who practice critical support don’t break it down for people when the interlocutor is obviously obstante.

      • Asetru@feddit.org
        1510·
        21 小时前

        Found the tankie.

        Good to know that blocking the instance doesn’t block its users. God dammit. Can’t you tell the people on your conspiracy server to fix that so I don’t have to endure you?

        • Maeve@kbin.earth
          28·
          16 小时前

          And you’re “that kind” of asatreau so careful with that salute.

          • yeahiknow3@lemmy.worldEnglish
            133·
            19 小时前

            This obsession with east vs west is paradigmatic of tankie tribalist ideology. They can’t conceive of someone who doesn’t obsess over nationality or ethnic and cultural loyalties. Humans are humans. We should fight to be free from state oppression. Not complicated.

            • Maeve@kbin.earth
              27·
              16 小时前

              When you guys get on board with putting a stop to the marauding, plundering, pillaging, genocide, sexual assault, genocide, and coups, not to mention wage suppression so you can have cheap gas and trinkets, those of us with a conscience would stop obsessing. Not complicated.

            • YappyMonotheist@lemmy.world
              411·
              19 小时前

              It’s not “loyalties”, but culturally informed/derived ideology and attitudes and the particular brand of propaganda people are getting. This is observable, and you’re not thinking clearly about this.

              • yeahiknow3@lemmy.worldEnglish
                72·
                19 小时前

                it’s not “loyalties” but … the particular brand of propaganda people are getting.

                State propaganda exists to engender loyalty to the regime. That’s the whole point.

                They are quick to jump on any “western” wrongdoing, but equally quick to dismiss much worse from their own tribe. Because they are tribalists and nationalists who favor some nations over others — because they’re brainfucked by propaganda, as you said.

                • Maeve@kbin.earth
                  26·
                  16 小时前

                  Jesus Christ, operations gladio and condor, couping/embargoing/sanctioning every government that tried differently isn’t enough?

                • YappyMonotheist@lemmy.world
                  47·
                  18 小时前

                  I think you missed my point.

                  And uhh, maybe the actual tankies that people hate so much, but that’s not what I see on .ml, at least in my limited experience. And I have no horse in this race (I’ve not only been banned/silenced on .ml a couple of times but I’m also a believer, which is usually frowned upon in these circles, for reasons I somewhat understand), I just see the enmity/friction between instances for what it is: traditional and dishonest Western imperialists who uphold the status quo but also care about optics (and because of the latter, would never admit it unlike their “MAGA” siblings who, being challenged, actually think being inhuman and coercive for material gain are positive attributes) and those who call them out for it. Whoever complains about “tankies on Lemmy” on the regular is just telling on themselves, basically.

  • okwhateverdude@lemmy.world
    445·
    22 小时前

    I don’t think there is any organized feud, as such. A lot of instance population is actually self-selecting. Ideological instances are common. .ml happens to be one of the bigger ideological ones. Unfortunately, they tend to support authoritarian narratives coming out of countries that like to invade their neighbors. Lots of russian disinformation comes from that instance in particular.

    • AskewLord@piefed.socialEnglish
      295·
      22 小时前

      i don’t think it’s so much a feud so much as .ml folks are much more hardcore and they actively proselytize their beliefs and .world users aren’t as aggressive in that way. .ml is more active and .world is more reactive, at least in my experience.

      generally you also won’t get banned in a .world community for disagreement, you will absolutely get banned for any non-group think in a .ml community.

      • spankysalmon@fedinsfw.appEnglish
        2·
        16 小时前

        Eh I dunno’ I got banned from tv on .world for having such a gross opinion as, “Pluribus’ writing royally sucks” with many examples of how the (mild ep1 spoilers) supposedly interconnected consciousness that just wants nice things for humans made so many absolutely asinine decisions in many technical and social ways. Along with several other scientifically unsound things even within the universe of the show.

        So… I guess all that is to say, some mods/admins on Lemmy are happily carrying on the Reddit traditions of being the worst users.

        • AskewLord@piefed.socialEnglish
          2·
          16 小时前

          i remember when reddit mods didn’t ban you for having different opinions than them, but that was 15 years ago.

          hell, some of the places i was on reddit the mods would defend people’s rights to have differing opinions and thoughts and beliefs. but that starting changing in the mid 2010s with the influxed of ID politics nutjobs who started becoming mods or harassing older mods into compliance with their insane beliefs that people are inherently evil or good based on their politics or their physical characteristics.

          the irony always being that ID pol people scream they are the proponents of ‘empathy’ but their ideology doesn’t believe it can genuinely exist between people of different identities.

      • Calfpupa [she/her]@lemmy.mlEnglish
        1415·
        21 小时前

        .world users have the benefit of all current propaganda pushing their positions so it makes sense they don’t feel the need to talk about it. I have been banned by many .world subs simply for linking evidence against claims, while I only was banned from .ml once when I unintentionally promoted hurting someone (and was unbanned when I messaged mods about it, which has yet to happen on any .world).

  • ambitiousslab@feddit.ukEnglish
    331·
    22 小时前

    I’ve come across some pretty levelheaded people from that instance too

    This was me (for some definition of level :D)

    I joined .ml before I really understood the differences. Even once I realised the connotation, I didn’t switch until I realised that !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works was blocked on that instance. That made me think about what instance I wanted to join (based on what communities I was most active in) and then I switched over here.

    So, there are definitely a mix of people on each instance. It makes me sad when I see people jump to conclusions based on instance, although I also understand it if 90% of their experience is of a particular type of person.

    • Alex@lemmy.ml
      10·
      21 小时前

      I keep meaning to find another instance although as far as I can tell it hasn’t limited my access to the communities I’m interested in (FLOSS software, technology and UK politics). Part of the inertia also comes from my experience on Mastodon which occasionally sees waves of server shutdowns when the costs become too much for individual admins to absorb. At least while the core contributers continue I can be reasonably certain the server will stay up.

  • Stormy@thelemmy.club
    113·
    17 小时前

    That sub is ran by people with a serious agenda. Its like the propaganda farm of lemmy. The mods beg you to stop reporting outright disinformation and the users are argumentative for no reason and aim to radicalize people of both persuasions.

  • one_old_coder@piefed.socialEnglish
    4213·
    22 小时前

    I know nothing about lemmy.world, but lemmy.ml and hexbear.net are filled with tankies (aka angry teenagers IMHO) and have been defederated with a lot of instances.

    lemmy.ml is writing the original source code of Lemmy, but I don’t remember any betrayal. Most users are not throwing mud, we mostly and politely ignore each other I guess.

    (anyway, come to https://piefed.social/ instead because it’s the best frontend!)

  • Ephera@lemmy.ml
    125·
    18 小时前

    Be mindful that it’s often just a handful accounts that post this stuff.

    Well, alright, it’s actually 36 accounts with the username “cm0002”, but you get the idea.

    • cm0002@lemy.lol
      91·
      17 小时前

      Yup, it’s just me who stands against .mls authoritarianism lmao

      Why am I cross-posting .ml content?

      I cross-post from .ml to the nearest relevant non-.ml comm to reduce the influence of .ml comms and indirectly, the instance as a whole, to help vitalize non-.ml comms and make it an easier decision for other instance admins to defederate because one key reason I identified that admins don’t want to defederate is because .ml still has some very large comms and some active niche comms.

      Megathread on the issue

      Some highlights from the link:

      Dessalines, head .ml admin, lead Lemmy dev actively spreading genocide denialism https://sh.itjust.works/post/61371958

      .ml admin, Nutomics continued transphobia https://lemmy.world/post/29222558 The original transphobic Comment from Nutomic: https://lemmy.world/post/18236068

      “If you don’t support Russia then you just don’t understand geopolitics” ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/27352415

      "Don’t worry guys, the Uyghur Genocide was REALLY just birth control! ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/30580167

      “See! nobody died IN Tiananmen Square, just AROUND it, so it doesn’t count!!” ~ Davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/30673342

      “NK is actually good and anything counter to that is Western propaganda!” ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/31595035

      General negative sentiment to other instances who haven’t “seen the way” yet ~davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/27426510

      And so so much documentation on clear heavy handed censorship and bias also on the link. So much I can’t even put them all here because this comment would be really long.

      I believe the behavior of its admins (the main admins are Lemmy devs) does harm to the overall growth of the Lemmy-verse and maybe even the Thrediverse (since Lemmy kinda kicked off the Thrediverse) because of its association with the devs of Lemmy and their insistence to use .ml as their personal political platform to spread harmful propaganda

      On the outside, bringing up Lemmy frequently leads to comments like “Lemmy? Isn’t that the place with a bunch of tankies?” Or “Tried Lemmy, but found it full of pro Russia crap so I left”. The best way forward from that I see is to either widely defederate from .ml like the rest of the Triad, or pressure them to put a fair and unbiased as possible admin team.

  • chunes@lemmy.world
    162·
    21 小时前

    I keep some lemmy.ml communities on my feed because it’s refreshing to see news out of china that while likely propaganda, is at least not the usual flavor of propaganda.

    • bunkyprewster@startrek.websiteEnglish
      191·
      21 小时前

      When I read other countries’ propaganda, it makes me realize how much US ruling class propaganda passes through unnoticed

  • YappyMonotheist@lemmy.world
    177·
    20 小时前

    It’s libs Vs commies on an instance level. And, with Lemmy being a Western online space, libs are more numerous. 👍

    • cm0002@lemy.lol
      9·
      17 小时前

      .ml admins are Tankies, they’re authoritarian communists

      As defined

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

      Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support or defend acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereof.

      Here’s a megathread on them

      You’ll get banned for showing support for Ukraine or going against Russian narratives or if you remind them of Putlers promise to not invade or just shit talking Putler in general

      Or calling out propaganda sites - https://lemmy.world/post/32776038 | https://lemmy.world/post/33416433 | https://lemmy.world/post/34051329 | https://lemmy.world/post/35919522

      Or so much more, I actually haven’t updated the megathread in a few months, but there’s more recent stuff on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works

    • yeahiknow3@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2211·
      19 小时前

      They’re not communists. They’re tankies: nationalistic authoritarians who defend police state brutality and “alternative facts” to spread disinformation courtesy of Russia and China. They’re obsessed with a west vs east tribalism and nationalism.

      Also, I don’t think you mean liberals strictly, but socialists — demsoc, socdem, anarchists, whatever.

      Anarchists don’t respect nation states or arbitrary class divisions, which clashes hard with tankies’ rabid nationalism.

      • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
        105·
        19 小时前

        i don’t see it as east/west tribalism or nationalism at play, it’s generally people identifying what they see as a lesser evil in the situation. when it’s not interactions with hostile liberals i see plenty of earnest discussion in these spaces, literally ‘putin is someone lenin would have had shot’.

        for me if i’m referring to liberals it’s anyone with a reformist orientation towards capitalism. if people are pushing that then they are more likely to compromise on important issues if given any individual power

        MLs share my analysis of capitalism and imperialism. i can have disagreements with them about organization and process while agreeing on the fundamentals. plus they won’t call the cops on me.

        with liberals half the time i’m arguing about whether capitalism is even the problem, or having to point out to them that war is actually bad. that’s a much bigger gap than disagreeing about revolutionary strategy.

        • yeahiknow3@lemmy.worldEnglish
          115·
          16 小时前

          Having strong opinions about reforming vs overthrowing capitalism doesn’t make you a tankie. Apologetics for state violence and Russian and Chinese totalitarianism certainly does; just as defending Israeli wrongdoing makes you a Zionist; and defending Trump makes you a fascist, etc.

          • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
            95·
            18 小时前

            They’re obsessed with a west vs east tribalism and nationalism.

            Having strong opinions about reforming vs overthrowing capitalism doesn’t make you a tankie. Authoritarianism and defense of state violence and the Russians and Chinese dictatorships certainly does.

            isn’t this just the tribalism that you were just complaining about? every state is authoritarian and has plenty state violence, if i’m going to have issues with that it’s going to be with the states i actually live in.

            not wanting to engage with propaganda narratives about state enemies from my own state doesn’t mean it’s automatically a defense of what other states are doing

            • yeahiknow3@lemmy.worldEnglish
              52·
              16 小时前

              No. I don’t care about any nation state, only about the badness of dictatorships. Tankies defend Russian and Chinese dictatorships in particular.

              Interestingly, they don’t defend (and often even condemn) other dictatorships. This is a feature of their tribalistic ideology and a product of propaganda. Concepts like “state enemies” are meaningless to me. I apply moral rules universally to all people and hold their behaviors to the same standard, regardless of their imaginary nation.

              One last thing. Russia’s favorite propaganda is that everyone lies and democracy is impossible because state violence is universal. They don’t deny their wrongdoing (the way China does), they embrace it with whataboutism. Saying “all states have violence” is meaningless. Of course all statehood is based in violence. Yet clearly Taiwan and China have very different approaches.

              To whit, I have no rights in China. They could literally disappear me for this comment.

              • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
                34·
                16 小时前

                then we share a position that all states are bad; i have particular ire for ones that are outright dictatorships of capital. that includes the US, all of its allies and some of its enemies.

                i live in the US, so i am going to be loudest about about what my state is doing internally and what it’s sponsoring abroad. i am going to treat the propaganda narratives it produces about its enemies with suspicion, and that should not be construed with ‘defending’ anything.

                it often does though.

        • spankysalmon@fedinsfw.appEnglish
          2·
          15 小时前

          You seem to constantly be ignoring the fact that tankies are specifically hypocrites about it. We all KNOW tankies will say left wing opinions in the general sense.

          The problem is they don’t apply leftist morals to EVERYONE. They have pet beliefs and often a favorite communist/anarchist dictator that they’ll actively defend.

          Why would you even care about the opinions of someone that cannot understand that supporting any dictator basically by definition removes you from many ideologies of the left??

          We shouldn’t suffer hypocrites. If something is bad because the act is bad, it’s bad when ANYONE does it. Period.

          We can discuss what bad acts may be necessary to recover things from the tyrants in charge and the worthiness of such acts, but to pretend that things like indiscriminate mass murder and open war are somehow good actually is to completely fail the moral test, IMO.

          Basically… they’re people who fail the logic of, “two wrongs don’t make a right”. Or a more direct expression, “the ends don’t justify the means”.

          They’re exactly like conservatives in that they don’t care about others and are actually glad when the “correct” people are hurt.

      • hunnybubny@discuss.tchncs.de
        84·
        19 小时前

        No you libtard! Marx wanted name calling and calls for slaughter of entire nations.

        Remember, ever threatening and ever weak and disgusting enemy is the base idea behind communism.

      • Maeve@kbin.earth
        28·
        16 小时前

        What of authoritarian? Can you give examples of states that aren’t?

        • yeahiknow3@lemmy.worldEnglish
          51·
          16 小时前

          Russia’s favorite propaganda is to claim that democracy is impossible because state violence is universal. They don’t deny their own wrongdoing (the way China does): they embrace it with whataboutism.

          Saying “all states are authoritarian” is meaningless. Of course all statehood is based in violence. Yet clearly citizens of Taiwan and China have different relationships with their governments.

          To whit, I have no rights in China. They could disappear me for this one comment.

          • Maeve@kbin.earth
            25·
            15 小时前

            Hysteria isn’t a good look. Unless your family are wealthy corrupt.

  • Grimy@lemmy.world
    91·
    20 小时前

    It’s over blown tribalism imo. There’s a handful of accounts that are always fighting each other. The rest are just normal people.

  • lokalhorst@feddit.org
    3015·
    22 小时前

    Lemmy is strongly left-leaning and well you probably know the joke where two leftist enter a bar and 3 splinter groups come out.

    My general advice is to instance block lemmy.ml and avoid the war in Palestine/Israel.

    Lemmy.ml is the flagship instance of the authoritarian lemmy developers @nutomic@lemmy.ml and @dessalines@lemmy.ml and they unfortunately are not separating development and server administration. As Lemmy.ml is the oldest instance, many newbies think it is “the main Lemmy instance”, way before they realize what the concept of federation means. ml’s influence has weakened in the last years, but it’s still influencing the discussion a lot. Check !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works to get an idea about ml.

    • Maeve@kbin.earth
      1318·
      20 小时前

      You people are exhausting. What is authoritarian and please give examples of non-authoritarian states.

    • ZeldaFreak@lemmy.world
      48·
      21 小时前

      In my opinion this is what kills the fediverse. When instances block other instances, you just fragment the whole thing. I think what is needed is a Proxy. What do I mean with that? I can host a read only instance. This way I can control what instances I want to access and which I want to block, but this instance doesn’t host accounts or posts. I would still need an account with a regular instance. The proxy instance would allow multiple accounts at the same time, so you don’t need to worry about to change accounts or URLs, just to see a few other communities.

      The whole federation thing is quite neat, but you need so much information beforehand, to choose your “right” community. Of course there are some very isolated instances, that do get blocked by most regular instances, but between the regular instances, there are quite some differences. For example some instances forbid NSFW. Hetzner (server hoster) does not allow NSFW in their ToS and a while back, a lot of instances used Hetzner. Some instances got surprised by that, because they didn’t read the ToS.

      Also I have the fear that when some governments could make the life worse for instances and make them accountable for other instances, that you can access through their instance. As an example could be the age verification, that some countries do require now.

      • FiniteBanjo@feddit.onlineEnglish
        7·
        20 小时前

        Lack of moderation and a flood of botnets and employed hostile actors is what could kill the fediverse, like what is happening with Twitter, Reddit, FaceBook, or YouTube.

        • ZeldaFreak@lemmy.world
          34·
          20 小时前

          Calling them dead or about to be killed, is a wide stretch. All of them do got some dips and people leaving these sites, but I don’t see a big rush away, as the content is still there. With YouTube you don’t have an alternative. With Twitter some went to Mastodon, some to Bluesky and some to Trump Twitter. Reddit is still doing good and Facebook… The whole concept is not doing well.

          For all it’s important, including fediverse is the content. Let just focus on Lemmy and Reddit. With Reddit you did have communities splitting of abusive mods. With Lemmy you suddenly have some general purpose communities on different instances and you need to figure out which one is worth following. Some communities quickly die off and they go back to reddit, as there are more users for that community. This alone is hurting whole Lemmy. When you then have somewhat active communities across different Instances, because they think, their instance is better or the other instances sucks, then you split the community more.

          To survive you need content and active communities. Reddit still has a lot of that and Lemmy is trying to get more, but their design makes it hard to keep it together. Lemmy has just a few options to survive long term. Get more people and content, so the fragmentation doesn’t play a huge role. Change the design, to prevent fragmentation or the users stop fighting and stop fragmenting the content and try to agree on one community and the others get deleted.

          Stuff like Mastodon/Bluesky don’t have such a huge problem, as it’s about a single person and not a community.

          • FiniteBanjo@feddit.onlineEnglish
            2·
            20 小时前

            YouTube MAU peaked in 2023 and long form videos are crashing down in views across the entire site.

            Short form creators don’t really make any money to begin with so they have no future on the platform.

            How far it will fall, nobody knows, but if the equivalent happened to a smaller company it would be fatal.

            • ZeldaFreak@lemmy.world
              21·
              15 小时前

              But there is no big movement away. Yes creators do get less views and money, but I don’t see a big movement of creators, nor viewers. Some big creators try to get the viewers back, that they lost because of the algorithm. They do create and use platforms like Floatplane or Nebula. Here in Germany some do go to the streaming sites of TV Networks. This isn’t really solving the problem, as you switched from shitty YouTube to streaming fragmentation.

              Bilibli apparently tries to go international and they do have the infrastructure to be an alternative. I use YouTube since 2008 and there was always people saying that their peak was a few years ago. I saw one try to move away from YouTube here in Germany. A lot of creators rushed to a platform, took viewers with them and started to upload their stuff there. The site couldn’t handle the demand, quickly bought new hardware and what happend next? A lot of people walked back to YouTube. Creators didn’t wanted to double upload and manage 2 sites and from a viewers perspective, not everyone switched, so they stayed where everyone was.

              I saw so much the last years. People are always upset about changes and they always say they move but in the end, not much happens. People forget and with the next change, the whole thing repeats. There are no worthy alternatives. Some companies do try it, but it doesn’t quite work out. Do you remember Facebook Gaming/Live? Do you remember Mixer? Both platforms that tried to replace twitch. Even YouTube tried to focus more on Game Streaming but failed. You still can stream on Youtube, but the whole YouTube Gaming thing is dead and never really took off.

              To be honest, currently is a good time to try again to switch away from YouTube, as it really messed up a lot of stuff, because they focused more on short videos, than long videos. The other question is how long long videos do exist. Do they move more towards other platforms, like more classic vod streaming services (Netflix, Prime, Paramount, Disney, Discovery or streaming platforms of local TV stations) or do they try to fit more in the short video sector?

      • AskewLord@piefed.socialEnglish
        46·
        19 小时前

        people kill the fediverse because they can’t keep their insane beliefs to themselves, and feel compelled to harass and intimate anyone who doesn’t share their beliefs.

        including the incessant demonization of anyone who isn’t as extreme as they are.

        • ZeldaFreak@lemmy.world
          11·
          15 小时前

          Different countries, different laws about free speech and expectations of free speech. Also different countries, different propaganda and their leaders/governments pushing certain agendas. Within their country, they are not wrong. A lot of centralized websites are US based and do follow US laws but you can’t expect that the Internet follows US or EU laws and their culture. Obviously this creates problems and the thing is, that every country tries to fight it their own ways and try to push their agenda. One example would be the GDPR. Some US sites just geoblocked EU IPs, because they didn’t want to deal with these laws, that aren’t even from their country.