- cross-posted to:
- theguardian_us@rss.ponder.cat
- cross-posted to:
- theguardian_us@rss.ponder.cat
Police said a suspect was in custody after the shooting near the Capital Jewish Museum
A suspect is in custody after shooting dead two Israeli embassy staff outside a Jewish museum in Washington on Wednesday night.
The gunman, named by police as Elias Rodriguez, 30, of Chicago, approached a group of four people leaving an event at the Capital Jewish Museum and opened fire, killing Yaron Lischinsky and Sarah Milgrim.
Metropolitan police chief Pamela Smith said the shooter had been pacing outside the museum, which is steps away from the FBI’s field office, before the shooting.
After killing the pair, who officials said were a couple, he walked inside, where event security detained him. The suspect yelled: “Free, free Palestine,” after he was arrested, police said.
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What I found pretty unsettling when I watched some excerpts from the news was the stark contrast in how the events are portrayed depending on who’s getting murdered. Let me explain:
The media and officials insisted on humanizing the victim; notably mentioning the crushed family life he was building for himself (“He bought the ring and was engaged”).
The problem is that the Palestinian children and families getting crushed in a genocide don’t have the privilege to be treated as human, to be cared about or their dreams and aspiration considered. They are at best unfortunate victims and most of the time walking flesh that needs to be exterminated.
I find that so frustrating how the right or even the mainstream always portray themselves as the superior moral culture while enabling the worse mass extermination to happen, documented before them.
EDIT: they even talked about a “heinous” crime which felt so tone-deaf and laughable.
💯 the default assumption of the media is that these Israelis are relatable humans and this is a tragedy… But what is happening in Gaza is somehow morally ambiguous.
Maybe one could argue the sheer scale of the Gaza genocide makes it difficult for the media to humanize them, so they get reduced to just a number of fatalities with lots of digits. But if the media default was that the Palestinian lives had value they would look through the lives lost like those in 9-11 and tell their stories.
Philosophy Tube has a great video about this topic https://youtu.be/rLfzO7Sbdc4. At 27:20 she starts talking about who’s life is worth grieving and who’s is not, and how this is a government level topic. It hits the nail on the head about the differences in reporting two different people’s deaths can have. At 33:45 they specifically talk about the 2008 Gaza war.
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Wonder how many American “pro-lifers” are ok with this genocide
Every. Single. One. Those kids are kids, not fetuses; alive, with hopes and dreams. In other words, completely fucking useless to the “pro life” people.
Do you mean a lot of victims are babies so people can’t relate and sympathize? Because for a child, there are so much dreams, emotions, formative experiences; how can the public hostile to the Palestinian cause close their eyes on that ?
People getting killed in a warzone is different than political murders.
It’s not about who, it’s about context.
News reporting is also about new and unexpected events.
Consider this: People being killed in Sudan or Myanmar gets no attention compared to Gaza.
lol. Describes Gaza as “people getting killed in a warzone”, then has the lack of self-awareness to preach about context.
You sound like an Israeli shill, mate. Dumbing down the language and trying to change the focus to another atrocity.
Gaza isn’t “people getting killed in a warzone”, it’s civilians and children getting bombed in their beds/hospitals/schools/refugee camps and currently being starved to death in the dark by an oppressive fascist regime.
The man who got shot had an active Twitter account. Very stand-up guy. Such a shame he got killed.
And thank you president Trump for speaking out for the man who has always had your back. 🫡
While any loss of life should be saddening, this dude REEEEALLY makes it hard to be empathetic.
Rest in piss.
Well he seems like a total piece of soulless shit, lets give him that.
Contrary to the bogus claims of the media, this dude is not a bullet-riddled corpse!
good ridance
Wonder what his lemmy username is.
Israel makes Jewish people around the world less safe when it claimed it would do the opposite.
Which only benefits Israel. If Jewish people are less safe in their home countries they are incentivized to become Israeli settlers.
It’s like they think they invented imperialism or something.
Odd though that out of 5 people he got two staffers. Seems he was trying to specifically get isreali employees.
I do feel for the innocents who get targetted… on both sides.
It sucks that more people died. It also sucks that I feel so…indifferent about this one.
How many Israelis have to die before they stop killing Palestinians? What’s two lives compared to the hundreds ended daily in Gaza? It’s hard to be sad.
These people probably weren’t evil. At worst, they were complicit after being fed a lifetime of propaganda. And nothing will change because of this so there’s no silver lining. It’s hard to be happy.
If I feel anything, it’s dread at how the story will be spun. But even then…whatever happens isn’t going to be the worse than what’s already happening.
So it’s hard to care at all. And that’s the sad part for me.
The government of Israel is evil.
These people worked for the embassy.We can’t condemn people in broad terms. That is what started this. Killing someone because of their nationally, race, or job, is wrong. It’s more senseless killing, adding to the hundreds of Palestinians killed.
Guard yourself against seeing individuals as the enemy, when their only sin is where they were born.
They weren’t just born there (and given the number of settlers over there, that’s doubtful tbh). They took a state job representing, and lobbying for this genocide.
It’s a tragedy that it has come to this, but it’s not wrong. It’s wrong that it has to be this way.
Killing is only justified if it saves lives. Anyone can see this act will cost lives on both sides. And 1000x as many on the Palestinian side.
Let’s be real, this guy wanted to be a badass and get praise and attention. And he doesn’t care how many die because of that.
I have a hard time reconciling killing is justifiable. I can agree if your life is in immediate danger but then you have the cops who use it as a license to kill. I lean on the side that some things just can’t be justified and we have to mitigate/manage these instances.
You know not all embassy staff are ambassadors from Israel right?
You can work at an embassy and be a US citizen.
Which one of them was.
That’s even worse then. Not even the excuse of growing up there to fall back on. They chose to work there still.
So you condone the killing of a person because they happen to work somewhere?
Odd take but ok.
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Much of Germany was working for the Third Reich, if you don’t recall from history.
Shooting random staffers doesn’t fight the Third Reich leadership, you just murdered some random people.
If you conveniently forget to mention where it is exactly they happen to work, of course it sounds silly.
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How do you know they were lobbying for genocide? For all we know they were against it and working for a peaceful solution. Not everyone who works for a government is part of the ideology. That’s no better than saying every Democrat is MAGA.
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Ambassadors are appointed. If they were not in favor of the administration they would be recalled and replaced by ones that were.
I suppose, but they weren’t ambassadors. So - that’s wrong.
It is beyond the shadow of a doubt that these people were directly involved in advocating for greater crackdowns on pro-Palestine antigenocide protesting.
Damn, a shadow of a doubt?! Holy shit you must have the motherfucking receipts on these sumremoved, let’s see it! Whatcha got, facebook post? Tiktok? Some sort of cleverly disguised academic treatise?
Yeah you got nothing. GTFO.
These two people lived by the sword.
Oh FFS.
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Maybe they did, which is why they were at an event to discuss delivering more aid to Gaza.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cy9vr10n732t
These were young idealists trying to make a change. But the shooter didn’t care about the distinction, and it seems many others don’t either.
Most Israelis support Israel which, until a few years ago, was a-ok on account of the previous thousands of years of persecution in every other country in the world, cresting in the unpleasantness of the early-mid 1900s which set quite the bar for evil and horror.
Then Likud - like all republiQan, right-wing authoritarian regimes - seized power and started fucking everything up in incredible, outrageous ways. Americans should be familiar.
I don’t know what they did for the embassy, but it could be something utterly harmless and treating them like enemy combatants when they’re in an entirely different country at a museum is wrong.
I get the hate at the Likud/IDF for the genocide. Y’all are losing the plot by thinking this is ok though. It is very much not okay.
You just have to check Lischinsky tweets and retweet oposing a palestinian state because it would be a gift to Khamas
Counter point: how do you know they weren’t…?
What about where to draw the line? Everyday the money we use is funneled to some corporation that has a hand in the human suffering that happens around the globe. When is thier evil transfered to me because I contributed to their successs.
I’d say the line is crossed when you have agency and knowingly use it to perpetuate suffering.
Everyone has agency to be more decerning with their purchases.
Killing someone because of their nationally, race, or job, is wrong.
One of these things is not like the others.
That’s exact what I’m trying to say - they didn’t deserve to die and nothing good will come from it.
I will admit I WAS happy about the UHC CEO because he was directly involved in the decisionmaking that led to suffering. But this one doesn’t feel like vengeance - until I hear otherwise, these were just two people caught in the crossfire. Bullets should be flying at Netanyahu and his cronies, not embassy employees.
i will disagree here as people in palestine have no choice, they are going to murdered by settlers and have their home of multiple generations taken away no matter what they do. so what alternative they have other than to fight back.
these “delegates” on the other are rich and educated enough to work for anyone other than this disgusting apartheid state of who murder women and children for fun on daily basis. we all know what aipac and israeli lobby does in us to hijack our political system. they are the actual terrorists not gazan fighting for survival without food and water against an enemy that wipes out a family with drone strike for speaking the truth. these “delegates” might not have shot anyone but they certainly ensure that the terrorists who do it get all the funds and weapons they need.
they intentionally murder doctors and medics so injured innocents die horrible death
people like him and luigi are just normal people who are brave enough to do the only thing that is going to make a dent against these well funded parasites.
Guard yourself against seeing individuals as the enemy, when their only sin is where they were born.
Kansas City?
Wat?
She was from Kansas City.
I agree, and i think killing people is wrong. But i would not say victims were not evil.
i know how you feel, it’s just like the thousands of other terrorist acts against Jews over the centuries
I don’t really feel indifferent towards those, though
so you don’t want any more of these murders to happen?
or you’re indifferent about that
Sorry, gloves off
What kind of stupid fucking gotcha do you think you’re trying to catch me in here?
would you be indifferent if more israeli embassy workers are killed?
clear enough potty mouth?
Genuinely awful for these two and their families, but the same can be said for ~53,000 dead Palestinians and the rest who are actively starving to death in a Israeli-made famine while aid rots onboard trucks across the border. Both acts are deliberate, and both were avoidable.
And while they were both working for the current extremists in power atm via the diplomatic service, they were a lot more moderate too:
Lischinsky “I’m an ardent believer in the vision that was outlined in the Abraham Accords and believe that expanding the circle of peace with our Arab neighbours and pursuing regional cooperation is in the best interest of the state of Israel and the Middle East as a whole. To this end, I advocate for interfaith dialogue and intercultural understanding.”
Milgrim organised visits and missions to Israel. She was also a volunteer at Tech2Peace, an advocacy group training young Palestinians and Israelis and promoting dialogue between them.
Tech2Peace said Milgrim was an active volunteer who “brought people together with empathy and purpose”.
I mean also…
“In his final post on social media hours before the attack, Lischinsky had shared a post from the Israeli ambassador, Amir Weissbrod, accusing UN officials of engaging in “blood libel” over claims that 14,000 children faced starvation in Gaza.”
Not saying they deserved any violence, but even once moderate Israelis have been driven pretty far right in the last couple years. Accusations of blood libel while the state is actively starving children doesn’t exactly seem to be promoting any positive dialogue.
Yeeeesh, hadn’t seen that reporting…
It’s unbelievably disappointing to see over and over again that Israelis are broadly okay with the death and destruction in Gaza, when a little over a generation ago they were on the cusp of a genuine two-state solution. And now it’s an ethnostate that practices apartheid, and it’s okay because “Bibi keeps us safe”. Almost as if nothing else matters.
It was always an Apartheid state - their own laws from the very start separate Israeli Citizenship from Israeli Nationality, with only Jews being allowed to have the last (in addition to the former) which has additional rights over mere Citizenship - and it had a Genocide already pretty near the time of its formation called the Nakba, only that was “just” displacement and a few murders rather than mass murdering hundreds of thousands of people.
It’s just that for a while their Propaganda was very successful and they might have even be genuinelly considering merelly not taking over the rest of Palestine as giving back that which they had already stolen was never on the table, nor was the return of the Palestinians or a genuinelly equal society for both Jews and Non-Jews.
Israel was always shit since it’s formation (which by the way involved them commiting terrorist attacks), it’s just that now they’ve gone extreme Genocidal on their way to commiting a XXI Century version of the Holocaust.
The context is important. A UN official said 14,000 children would die in 48 hours. As it turns out that was a grossly exaggerated claim.
a report from the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC) which stated 14,100 severe cases of acute malnutrition are expected to occur among children aged six to 59 months between April 2025 and March 2026.
The IPC report says this could take place over the course of about a year - not 48 hours
Weissbrod called that out.
I don’t think I would really consider it a grossly exaggerated claim, more of just a misinterpretation of a report.
“For now let me just say that we know for a fact that there are babies who are in urgent life-saving need of these supplements that need to come in because their mothers are unable to feed themselves.”
“And if they do not get those, they will be in mortal danger,” he said.
I definitely wouldn’t claim that it was a claim based on antisemitism as Weissbrod is accusing. It’s a fact that the Israeli state is starving tens of thousands of people for no justifiable reason. I don’t think a misinterpretation of the timeline is really enough to claim someone is participating in blood libel.
Well, as long as 14,000 children die of starvation over a longer time period…
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Really, guy? You’re removing opinions as “misinformation” to protect a genocidal nation’s dignity?
First time?
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Genuinely awful for these two and their families
Yeah.
Genuinely awful for these two and their families, but
Stop. It’s awful. Period!
A) One lone gunman goes off the rails and murders two people because they’re Jewish/affiliated with the state. That’s tragic and wrong, and I haven’t yet seen anyone claim that his actions were good and right.
B) An entire government and military decides that their course of action shall be wanton bombing with callous disregard for innocent civilian bystanders, whilst deliberately restricting food, fuel, and medical care to a blockaded nation. That’s willful evil, that is being either openly or implicitly supported by an overwhelming majority of Israelis.
The two scenarios are not the same, but they both are tragic.
But if two people are killed, you don’t have to say: “Well, but what about…”
Yes, you’re right, the two events are entirely unrelated. Clearly just another case of anti-semitism out of nowhere. No possible other reason or context exists as to why the gunman was shouting “Free Palestine” as he was arrested after committing double murder.
Whatabboutism is when you deflect from one action perpetrated by your group, towards another action perpetrated by an out-group. Me expressing remorse for their deaths alongside the people their government murdered is not “Well what about…”
Clearly just another case of anti-semitism out of nowhere
I never said that and you don’t have to put words in my mouth. Rest here, that’s all I wanted to say.
E: Putting words im mouths by the way doesn’t really help people to change their mind or discuss constructively, what I tried to do.
You’re not going to change your mind.
They might still move even further to the right.
I mean context is always important. Pretty sure any murder investigation goes into the motivation of the person who killed the victims.
I think it’s important to dispel the notion that the occupation of a neighboring country is somehow an act of protection, when it’s pretty obvious that it’s sparked a lot of provocation.
But they didn’t just pointed out the context. They said: “Genuinely awful for these two and their families, but the same can be said for ~53,000 dead Palestinians […]”. That wording tends to whataboutism which is something I just want to point out. I may be overreacting but this sentence just sounds very adverse.
I mean, I don’t think you get to decide what the scope of the context is.
For this not to be contextual you would have to claim that the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians had nothing to do with the gunman’s motive. I think that would be hard to claim considering that the murders were politically motivated, considering that the two victims were diplomats.
I think people have gotten a little too comfortable with claiming anything that shares a sentence structure with a logical fallacy to be a logical fallacy. You have to remember that logical fallacies have to be illogical in the first place. It’s not illogical to assume these two claims are associated.
Whataboutism have to equivocate two different scenarios that aren’t logically associated with the events in the originating claim.
It’s illogical to compare them from a moral perspective. You don’t get to just shoot people because they have a different perspective than you, because they were raised differently or get their news from different places than you do. It’s not exactly whataboutism though, it’s more of a false equivalence. Whatever the case, the gunman is not morally justified in murdering these two people. If you think he is, then you are blinded by ideology and shouldn’t be allowed to participate in democratic society.
Why are we like this online? Why does the inbox regularly receive with “well ahktually” replies compared to real discussion or comments?
But the same [sympathy towards grieving families] can also be said…
- Not “but tbh they deserve it bc Gaza”
- Not “but I don’t care”
- Not “but this is what they get for working for Israeli state”
Please don’t twist what I said to build a narrative where I’m some crypto-bigot trying to plant hatred. I wish the Israel apologists applied anywhere near that same level of effort towards the people who actually spew antisemitism…
This exact sentiment is why people don’t talk about Israel, but their reputation globally is in the gutter. Or how actual neo-nazis can pass fake Voltaire quotes that ‘Jews control the global media’ because criticism of Israel is verboten:
US congressman shares neo-Nazi’s quote wrongly attributed to Voltaire
CLAIM: French philosopher Voltaire said: “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”
AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. Enlightenment-era writer Voltaire did not say this. The quote, which was paraphrased, comes from a 1993 radio broadcast by Kevin Alfred Strom, who has been identified as a neo-Nazi by organizations that monitor hate groups.
You aren’t over reacting. It’s a massive false equivalence comparing what Israel has done against the murder of two individuals. The guy that got murdered isn’t Israel. He’s a person with opinions, right or wrong. He got murdered for a few tweets and an affiliation with Israel. He’s not a combatant, but a civilian. Same for his wife. People justifying these murders are flat out wrong, and there’s no place in America for ideological murders. In order to have a system where free speech is protected, you can’t allow people to be murdered for their views. There is no defending these murders or trying to justify them.
a massive false equivalence comparing what Israel has done against the murder of two individuals.
People aren’t trying to equivocate the two, that would be insulting, not only to the people who were murdered, but to the tens of thousands of people being killed in Palestine.
The guy that got murdered isn’t Israel. He’s a person with opinions, right or wrong. He got murdered for a few tweets and an affiliation with Israel.
I mean he’s a representative of the state, which is why this is a politically motivated murder.
He’s not a combatant, but a civilian. Same for his wife. People justifying these murders are flat out wrong
Explanations aren’t justifications, just because people understand and even agree with the motivations of the killer doesn’t mean the agree with how he acted upon them.
I find the cries for the sanctity of protecting civilians to be pretty meek considering the state these civilians represent have overwhelmingly killed more civilians than armed combatants.
This is the inherent problem with a state targeting civilian populations, it provokes violence upon your own civilians.
In order to have a system where free speech is protected, you can’t allow people to be murdered for their views.
Another person misunderstanding the Constitution…Free speech doesn’t protect you from the public’s reaction to your speech, it guarantees protection from the government targeting you for your speech.
This isn’t an example of someone’s free speech being violated. An actual example would be students being arrested for their protest about Israels actions in Gaza.
There is no defending these murders or trying to justify them.
Again, understanding a motive isn’t justifying. No one said they agreed that those people deserved to be murdered , you’re just moralizing.
Thanks.
In a vacuum that makes sense, but this is going to be used to rationalize/justify some nasty shit. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to brace for that.
Israel is doing worse by a long shot.
“Any attack against a Zionist is antisemitic”
So that means Isreal is a ethnostate?
A genocidal apartheid ethno state.
You forgot colonial
I left out a lot of choice words because the powers that be on most sites take offense when you call a spade a spade, or when you compare said spade to spades that plagued the world during the 1930’s and 40’s.
It was a networking event for Jewish people at a Jewish museum.
And they were two Zionists.
Heartbreaking to see, but sadly it was only a matter of time until something like this happened. This war on Gaza is growing increasingly unpopular and people feel powerless to stop the ongoing genocide being conducted by Israel. I don’t support attacks against random civilians but I’m not surprised somebody saw an opportunity to make a statement. These deaths are on Netanyahu along with the tens-of-thousands of Palestinians killed since the war started.
It doesn’t look like this was an “attack on random civilians.” Out of all the people they could have killed, they killed people who work for the Israeli Embassy. They worked for the government doing the genocide.
Now did they support it? Who knows, but this shooter was not shooting up a movie theater. It was no more random than the United Healthcare CEO.
not really random, this guy seems on par with the Israelis watching Gaza bombings from a cliff while eating popcorn. He also seems to have a full hard on for Trump, so for him all kinds of humanitarian crimes are probably ok as long as the president supports Israel State’s genocide. So not really random, perhaps more on the same level as Luigi.
These deaths are also on the people who demand to globalize the intifada.
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Do you think these murders help Palestinians?
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During the last month, I have introduced real life Israelis and Palestinians to each other. I have helped two Palestinians deal with German bureaucracy.
That’s the most recent stuff. A complete list would take too long to write down.
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Israel is now the primary driver of antisemitism throughout the world.
Technically the genocide is antisemitic, because Palestinians are semitic.
Antisemitism only has ever meant Jew hatred. Semitic is otherwise a linguistic term.
This argument is asinine.
Looking into this, it turns out all the dictionaries indeed seem to say it’s jew specific, which I think is a failing of the English language, because Jews are a drop in the bucket for semitic populations.
I’ll concede your point, despite the word structure literally implying something bigger.
Edit added references
The term Antisemitism was invented in German, so no inherent limitation of English. Anti comes from Ancient Greek in the first place, so no this isn’t a limitation of English.
There are many terms and words used, which aren’t simply the sum of its parts.
A hammer has nothing to do with ham for example.
I’m referring to the fact that “anti” and “semitism” are existing complete words. Every other example of a word given the “anti” prefix that i can think of is very clearly meaning, the opposite or against the existing definition of the word.
Antidisestablishmentarianism Antisocial Anticlimactic Antiacidemic Antibacterial Antifreeze Antihero Antihistamine
Hammer in your comment is a poor example, because hammer is its own word, despite the first three letters happening to be an existing other word. Antisemitism is clearly anti and semitism.
What’s annoying, is since this term was coined (as you said, in germany), it was purely a dog whistle for jew hatred.
Wikipedia:
The compound word antisemitismus was first used in print in Germany in 1879[19] as a “scientific-sounding term” for Judenhass (lit. ‘Jew-hatred’),[20] and it has since been used to refer to anti-Jewish sentiment alone.[21][22][23] Due to the root word Semite, the term is sometimes subject to an etymological fallacy whereby it is incorrectly assumed to apply to racist hatred directed at “Semitic people”, in spite of this being an obsolete racial concept.[23]
We need to let language do its thing, and adjust the meaning of this word to mean what it appears to mean, not some wink wink nudge nudge version you have to know ahead of time.
Antiair weapons don’t fight or kill the air.
Antisemitism was introduced as a more polite and scientific sounding euphemism for anti-Judaism. It’s just like racists today calling themselves race realists.
I mean, it’s not like antisemitism needed help, but here we are.
I don’t blame Jews for what’s happening, I blame Israel. Yes, there are many Jews that support what’s happening, but that’s no different from any other body of people.
Claiming what Israel is doing right now reflects on all Jews is the same as blaming trump on all Americans.
Agreed.
It didn’t need help being proudly adopted by uneducated bigots who believed in space lasers, but it was largely missing the intellectual generally accepting crowd. It sure got 'em now.
Antisemites have always blamed the Jews for Antisemitism.
They said Israel. You said Jews. You’re aware those are separate entities, yes? Or are you playing pedantic word games on purpose…?
Bro, you’re not going to stop a genocide by busting a cap in two nobodies half a world away.
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They censored me lol. What is this reddit?
Not to disagree with the claim, but it’s important to incidentally point out that historically speaking, this kind of strategy is ineffective, at least without an organised mass movement to resist the reactionary clampdown. It’s not sustainable. If it were, the US would have solved their healthcare problem already.
Are you implying anyone thought it would?
That’s a what globalize the intifada means in practice.
I don’t see how “globalize the intifada” jumps over to adventurist shootings. In practice, it means actions like writing off weapons factories (e.g. Palestine Action in the UK), strike and blockade actions (e.g. maritime unions, port actions), pressuring governments and organisations into withdrawing support for the zionist regime (e.g. boycotts, BDS movement, university protests) and other mass movement. We saw similar mobilisation with apartheid South Africa and the Vietnam War, so this isn’t some imaginary claim, it’s based on actual history of similar international solidarity movements.
Look up what happened during the second intifada. That’s the context. Of course that also includes militancy, violence, and terrorism.
BDS
Doesn’t even support a two state solution for example.
Vietnam and South Africa were different. Neither of which ended through university protests. The Vietnam war was too expensive and politically unwinnable. Apartheid South Africa ended because the ANC was able to alleviate the fears of white South Africans from being massacred if they lose power. Neither of which applies to Palestine.
Israel(is) can’t go their home elsewhere, like the American soldiers. They also have valid fears of being exterminated if they lose some nance over the situation. Something like October 7th Never happened in South Africa.
Harping on these other situations hinders your ability to understand what’s going on in Israel/Palestine.
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You’re badly underestimating the scale of some of the post WWII genocides. The Khemer Rouge potentially killed more people than the total population of Gaza for example…
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The genocide of the Tigray had three times the deaths and only happened two years ago.
The Rwandan genocide and Hutu genocide during the Congo war killed hundreds of thousands in the 1990s.
This is only the most recent events that came to mind.
Oh, well, that makes the genocide OK.
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The West? The colonial rulers used divide and conquer to divide these populations. However that was decades earlier and happened all over the world without leading to genocide every time.
Africans have their own agency. They are able to commit genocide just like white people or actually all humans.
After killing the pair, who officials said were a couple, he walked inside, where event security detained him. The suspect yelled: “Free, free Palestine,” after he was arrested, police said.
Certainly plausible…
But I don’t trust the police or embassy officials from a country that’s spent years committing a genocide.
They’re not trustworthy witnesses.
If anyone is upset about that and wants it to change, you should go tell the cops and Israel to stop murdering people and then claiming it was self defense.
When you lie about shit constantly, people just stop taking your word on shit
Video is all over the news of this happening. Suffice to say the conservatives/Israelis are now winning the propaganda war in the US with this event.
They’ve been winning it for a long time because multiple governments around the world have outlawed dissent in a lot of different ways. This event isn’t going to change anybody’s opinions on the underlying conflict it’s just going to make everyone dig in deeper.
It makes it more of an uphill battle. This will absolutely be used to justify further criminalizing pro-Palestine speech and public demonstrations.
You’re not wrong, but it’s also an indication of just how thoroughly the Israelis have destroyed their credibility/moral high ground that my immediate thought after reading your comment was that maybe the shooter was Mossad doing a false-flag operation to manufacture that result.
TIL reporting on a terrorist attack is “propaganda”
well you already used the term terrorist attack so it seems the propaganda is already here
It’s gonna be used as propaganda, yeah. This will be the strawman for all pro-Palestine sentiment in the US for the near future.
I couldn’t agree with you more.
So, there’s a lot of things happening in Gaza other than what’s on the nose. Like starvation can cause neurological issues in the brain, in the body. It can even make your hair turn gray. All the stress. During World War I, soldiers came back with a thing called shell shock, and they would just constantly shake all the time. The kids in Gaza are showing symptoms of shell shock. So I could care less about two people getting killed.
A woman who attended the event, Katie Kalisher, told CBS News that she encountered the alleged shooter right after hearing gunfire.
“Then this man comes in … but he was covered in rain and just looking really distressed and scared,” Kalisher told “CBS Mornings.” “We were comforting him because we thought that he was just somebody out in the street looking for a safe place to stay because he heard some gunshots.”
She said she talked to him to try to help him relax. “I asked him, ‘So, do you like the museum?’ And he’s kind of playing dumb with me,” she said about the interaction. “He goes, ‘Oh, what kind of museum is this?’ I told him, ‘It’s a Jewish museum.’ He asked, ‘Do you think that’s why they did this attack’ … referring to the rounds that we heard.”
She said she told him she didn’t think so and asked if he was OK. Then, she said, “He reaches into his bag and pulls out a keffiyeh and says, ‘I did it. I did it for Gaza.’ And, just starts shouting, ‘Free Palestine.’”
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Do explain how they facilitated a genocide.
Or STFU. Seriously. Explain why you think they deserved to be murdered in the US in front of a museum for having worked at the embassy. Seekrit MOSSAD maybe? Did they know (((others))) in the banking halls of power and the media and were plotting with them?? You have the answers, obviously, do share them. Or admit you don’t.
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You are basically advocating for murdering US postal and social service workers…
Nope. Not even close. Stop making stuff up asshole. As I have explained elsewhere on the thread, culpability is relative to role/actions and the severity of the organization’s crimes. I also explained that none of this violence is good. I’m not advocating for violence, I’m explaining that is inevitable when people and organizations perpetuate unbelievable violence, it’s going to blow back. I DONT WANT VIOLENCE. That’s why I’m so outraged at Israel’s fucking violence.
You really are, the US is the primary funder and arms provider of the genocide in Palestine, it is a christo-fascist oligarchy built on multiple genocides and the two largest scale ethnic displacements in world history. Neither of which have had substantive reparations paid for. The state is actively in the process of in large part ethnically motivated murder, mass incarceration, mass displacement, family separation, torture, and placement in concentration camps. By your logic anyone working for that state is culpable and a legitimate target of political violence. Be logically consistent or get out.
I basically agree with you assessment of the US. You are either unaware of or ignoring the nuance I added to the description of my position elsewhere in the thread. But, whatever.
Yeah, that’s a much more reasonable take, it isn’t what you said at first though.
So anyone working for a part of the state is responsible for the actions of that state?
The undersecretary of Education is responsible for splitting up mothers and children at the border in 2017?
That’s the same reasoning. Show that it is not, if you can.
So anyone working for a part of the state is responsible for the actions of that state?
There’s nuance here. Janitors at an Israeli government building? Probably not. State department employees serving an overseas mission to represent and lobby for your genocide? Yeah.
And you’re sure that’s what they were doing.
By working there they were implicit in helping the mission there so yes. I wouldn’t have joined the German Embassy in 1941 even as a functionary unless I was a Nazi.
And if they joined before Oct 7th 2023?
I don’t think it’s a binary. Culpability is relative to one’s role and actions. The severity of state action is also a factor and as that severity increases, culpability expands. I want to be explicit, I hate violence and I wish this had not happened. That being said, such violence is an inevitable consequence of circumstances like what the State of Israel and the US are orchestrating. To quote JFK:
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
Culpability is relative to one’s role and actions.
You stated that these two murder victems “facilitated a genocide”. Then you explained that that was because they worked for the state of Israel.
Now their presumed culpability is relative to their role and actions, which brings us back to the very first question - what were their roles and actions that made them culpable for the genocide in Palestine?
The embassy exists to maintain international support and cooperation in all areas.
Like I’m iffy on all this, I’m smelling some potential antisemitism with the location and everything. But the Israeli embassy to the United states is not bloodless. Their purpose is to maintain positive relations with their largest supplier of arms and armaments. That’s not the only reason they exist, it’s probably not the majority of their interactions. I’m sure they do plenty of good, but it’s one of the goals of their diplomacy. The Israeli embassy to Kenya is far less complicit.
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Mr. Lischinsky specialized in Japanese studies and was an outstanding student, according to Professor Otmazgin. “He was an idealist,” he said. “He wanted to build bridges between Israel and other countries, especially in Asia.”
He grew up in a culturally mixed family with a Jewish father and a Christian mother, and was a practicing Christian, according to Ronen Shoval, the dean of the Argaman Institute for Advanced Studies in Jerusalem, where Mr. Lischinsky participated in a yearlong program in classical liberal conservative thought after earning a master’s degree in government and diplomacy.
“He was a devout Christian,” Dr. Shoval said, “but he had tied his fate to the people of Israel.”
In his application to join the program, which Dr. Shoval shared with The New York Times, Mr. Lischinsky described his upbringing in a multicultural family and “the inner struggles” he faced while growing up in a religious household within secular societies in Germany and Israel.
Hanan Lischinsky said his brother had been considering applying to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ cadet course to train to be a diplomat. People who worked with Mr. Lischinsky in the embassy said that there, he identified as Jewish.
. . . Ms. Milgrim had lived abroad in several places, including in Costa Rica, where she spent time working on a master’s degree program, eventually earning master’s degrees in international affairs and in natural resources and sustainable development.
Like many young Jewish Americans, she and her brother, Jacob, 28, also participated in Birthright Israel, which offers free trips to Israel in an effort to bolster Jewish identity. In Israel, she worked for an organization that connected young Israelis and Palestinians, her father said.
. . . Mr. Milgrim said that his daughter and Mr. Lischinsky were both concerned about peace in the Middle East, the stability of Israel and the plight of Palestinians.
“She was doing what she loved, she was doing good,” her father said. Doing good, he added, is “what brought her life to an end.”
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To the earlier example of the undersecretary of education; they are enabling family separation at the border?
Is it not that complicated?
Why don’t you just go work there and get these answers. They got 2 brand new openings lmao.
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