- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
Shortly after a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officer shot and killed a woman in Minneapolis on Wednesday, city leaders began looking into whether the officer had violated state criminal law.
Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey said, “We collectively are going to do everything possible to get to the bottom of this, to get justice, and to make sure that there is an investigation that is conducted in full.” Police Chief Brian O’Hara followed up by saying that the state’s Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is “investigat[ing] whether any state laws within the state of Minnesota have been violated.”
If they conclude that state law has been violated, the question is: What next? Contrary to recent assertions from some federal officials, states can prosecute federal officers for violating state criminal laws, and there is precedent for that.
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He’s a murderer, not a shooter.
The media can’t legally say “murder” unless/until there’s a conviction. So it’s either “alleged murderer” or “shooter”, and they definitely chose of the two, the one that ‘safely’ implies more guilt.
One can’t really reasonably fault them for that choice, if one believes in his guilt, which you obviously do.
Yup, and it’s generally “alleged murderer” only after they’ve been charged.
Knowing how the media uses these terms helps understand where along the line things are in terms of the justice system. If I read “murder” I’d assume the guy has been convicted (so justice is being served) because of the convention of not using that word until there’s a conviction. “Shooter” means he hasn’t even been charged, so I know there’s been no justice.
It wouldn’t be good for the media to imply justice has been served when in reality it hasn’t. So it’s good that they call him a shooter so those of us with media literacy know the situation accurately.
Trump can’t pardon him
Trump isn’t supposed to be able to do a lotta shit the fascist fuckwit is actively doing. Those checks and balances are non-fucking-existant.
Trump keeps getting away with shit on the federal level because no one is stopping him and people comply with his demands. Despite Trump repeatedly “pardoning” Tina Peters, the prison guards in Colorado are keeping her locked up and are ignoring him. Minnesota could do the same
Start tossing these Nazis in jail and see them scatter
Trials need evidence which Noem and others knowingly stole. Absent evidence a conviction will be hard to obtain. The state’s helpless pleading here isn’t about jurisdiction it’s about access.
Couldn’t they charge them with evidence tampering or obstruction or something?
IANAL
The Supremacy Clause of the Constitution makes this very unlikely to succeed. I’m not sure I would want to risk setting that kind of court precedent.
I don’t understand but will Google. Thanks!
E: googled. Makes sense.
no they can’t, the FBI stole all the evidence
That may not have been enough, given that in incidents like George Floyd, public video postings were some of the most critical evidence. Everyone has that evidence, even if they cannot provide on-scene confirmations.
That doesn’t exactly work in the murderers favour, considering now the only evidence is various videos of him doing the murder in a non-threatening situation.
What’s the opposite of jury nullification?
A lynch mob?
Ehh kind of. But, you know, nullification is when the laws say they’re guilty but the jury says no. Typically because the laws are unjust. But there’s an opposite where the laws might say they’re innocent, but the jury says guilty because the laws are also unjust.
Yeah, still sounds like mob justice. Not disagreeing with the mob in this case mind you.
Yeah, true. Too much jury nullification of any sort means you’re systems are failing. Not good for a society.
ICE is the lynch mob.
About as organized as one, but by the very definition the violence done by and on order of the government can’t be one.
Also jury nullification. Doesn’t matter if the verdict the jury delivers is guilty or innocent, so long as the jury says one thing and thinks another it’s jury nullification.
“could” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
It’s the same jurisdiction that put 4 cops in jail for murdering George Floyd. There’s a good chance that AG Keith Ellison is looking into it
Don’t you dare give me hope!
“Rebellions are built on hope.”
That feels good to read.
Oh sorry, won’t happen again! We’re all fucked.
Three of the four officers are already out of prison.
And the one whose knee was actually on him was sentenced to 22.5 years
They misspelled “should”
Just said the same thing before reading your comment.
Glad there is like minded gooners.
Wake me up when it’s “will”.
Real talk! c should equal sh
I shannot see the benefit of that.
Yeah sure.
How many National Guard went to jail for the Kent State massacre?
Zero. Four murdered, 9 maimed.
Exactly. They will get away with this.
They could. But they won’t. That would be more than just token resistance. Everybody knows the Dems are paid by corporations to only resist with words, motions, committees, and meaningless votes.
If we want accountability, we’re going to have to demand it, like after George Floyd.
Only once it becomes cheaper to appease us than resist us, will we be appeased.
paid by corporations
This is so “both sides are the same”-coded
If you think we got to this point only because of Republicans… You haven’t been paying attention.
No they’re not the same exactly, but democratic inaction is nearly as bad as it allows this kind of shit to happen.
The dems are every bit as effective as the people who stay home instead of voting. When it’s important, they do nothing.
Blaming the voters for rightly seeing the dems won’t fight for them either isn’t helping the situation.
We wouldn’t be in this mess if the democratic party hadn’t made excuse after excuse. We’ve been betrayed over and over and that takes its toll on people.
I still hold my nose and vote D because they’re the lesser of two evils clearly, but I can understand why so many are tuned out.
Did you know Democrats originally tried to make single payer a part of ACA?
The problem is, they needed 60 votes in the Senate, and ONE Democrat, Joe Lieberman, joined EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN in voting against the public option.
1 single Republican voter crossing the aisle could have delivered single payer, but idiots blame the Dems. Electing 1 more Democrat instead of a Republican could have delivered single payer, but idiots blame the Dems. 40 Republicans and 1 Democrat voted NO against Single Payer, and brilliant minds everywhere gargled BOTH SIDES SAME!! You can’t make this shit up.
I did, the funny part is instead they literally went with Romney’s plan and still got shit on forever for it.
Trying to reason and play politics with facists doesn’t work, and its long past time they learn that.
Did you know the Democrats actively prop up republican nutjobs (financially supporting their campaigns) because they think it’s easier to win against them? One of those nutjobs was Donald Trump.
You can’t make this shit up
If voting R means corporatism and fascism, and voting D still means corporatism and fascism, just on the next election cycle instead of this one, who cares if there’s any technical distinction between them?
Because citizens don’t get shot in the face under D, for one.
Citizens don’t get meaningful reform against face shooting or accountability for face shooters under D either.
The best we ever get is another public condemnation against face shooting and an empty threat to hold the next face shooter accountable, pinky swear this time.
Oh fuck off
Everything they said is correct.
Oh fuck off
Oaf a cough.
Look what it took to get Chauvin prosecuted. If we want pigs to face justice, we have to speak at a volume they can hear us in their mansions.
Chauvin wasn’t assaulted with what’s legally considered a dangerous weapon. So this case would be much harder. Unprecedented, really.
Chauvin wasn’t assaulted
That’s not what he claimed at the time. A big part of every cop-killer story is the allegation that the person they murdered prompted the killing. Chauvin insisted through his entire defense that Floyd lashed out at him in his final moments, right before he spontaneously died of a drug induced heart attack.
We’ve got video clear as day of the ICE agent casually walking up to the car and plugging the woman in the face. This was a mother who’d just dropped her child off at daycare, not some marauding vehicular anti-ICE assassin. She was given seconds to respond to a command and butchered for failing to act fast enough.
Oh God, they’re trying the right-wing psyop campaign on Lemmy
By the logic the government has tried to push on this murder, people should be able to shoot into the vehicles of ICE thugs when they try to drive through protest crowds. We’ve seen that on video plenty of times in the last year.
Not an american but seems like US’ case law is very much precedented here. I don’t have a source at hand but there has been at least a dozen similar cases all sided with the victims. Even official training of ICE explicitly says “do not stand in front of the vehicle ever”.
If there’s no justice here then it’s entirely on lack of will rather than law.
Every case people cite are civil lawsuits for excessive force. And people usually don’t prevail, especially when an officer is actually in the process of being assaulted.
At most, her family could get a settlement for damages for excessive force. But criminal charges are what would be pretty unprecedented.
I think it’s moot to discuss this without bringing up the actual law cases and I’m not going to lie - I’m a bit too lazy and this is too depressing for me to sacrifice my time for.
My faith in US’ justice system is not great though so you might very well be right.
He walked in front of her car after she backed up and turned her wheels away from the thugs to begin fleeing them.
The ICE murderer also want assualted. He instigated.
I hope that you never find yourself opposite an asshole cop who doesn’t care whether you actually pose any danger to them.
They could but I doubt you’d get a conviction given how many boot licking citizens there are.
I’m not so sure. There are numerous widely circulated videos shot by members of the public that are easily available online. Any of those could be entered in as evidence. You just have a question of strength of case. If the video original starts 30 seconds previous and shows the agent not identifying himself and charging at the car, then you have a pretty open and shut case. The only question becomes identifying the specific agent. If ICE will not turn over the identity and it’s not clear from the video, it may be more difficult to charge that person. That would lead to an interesting State versus Federal showdown where the state court would try to subpoena a federal agency, and I’m sure the federal agency would do everything possible to stop that subpoena.
They’ve ID’d the shooter, Jonathon Ross is the guy’s name.
Could means fuck all. The word that needs to be used is will.
“Minnesota WILL prosecute the ice shooter.”
When that is the title of an article then it means something. Until then it’s all may, might, and could. Weak shit.The Gestapo is murdering people on the street. Public executions on the streets of the Nazied States of America.
Please prosecute him, Minnesota
Oh and this is my 150th comment here in this instance - I DON’T have to keep telling you this
Oh and this is my 150th comment here in this instance
???
Weird flex, but okay
Right haha
1239 comments here
Even in the bizarro world where an arrest warrant or indictment is issued, ICE will close ranks around their brother who just got a notch on his belt. No state cops are gonna slug it out with the feds to make that arrest.
Although you’re probably right, part of me really hopes that’s why Walz put the national guard on standby
That’s the stated reason that Walz put the national guard on standby. He said he put them on standby and that he wants ice out of our state; the implication there being that ice can leave on their own or be escorted out. He’s not running for reelection so he has no reason to hold back anymore. I have never seen him quite that clipped in a press release before. He is furious. We may have ice being forcibly deported by the MN national guard shortly here and that is going to get very interesting in a lot of ways
I watched his speech and he doesn’t actually say that he is putting them on standby to defend against ICE. Reading between the lines, he seems to be putting them on standby to be ready to quell protest so that Trump can’t use the protests as an excuse to put federal troops in the area.
What I got from the speech is the following in fairly quick sucession.
- We won’t have minnesotans fighting minnesotans.
- The minnesota national guard are minnesotans; they are your friends and neighbors.
- The minnesota national guard has been put on standby.
- Ice is not wanted in minnesota and they need to leave.
The fact that points 1 and 2 were said right next to each other says to me at least that the national guard isn’t there for the protesters.
What made me think that is that he rattles off a whole list of state agencies that were being activated to deal with the incident, and then his next words are we do not need help from the federal government.
Quell the protest was probably the wrong wording. But I think that the national guard is being used to ensure that the protests are controlled and don’t escalate or turn to violence which would give the federal government an excuse to send troops…
A lot of those same agencies are also the same agencies you’d activate if you were getting ready to boot out ice too though. I guess only time will tell exactly what is going to happen. But Walz did seem like he regretted and learned from his response to the George Floyd protests. It seems likely to me that he may swing the other way this time.
…and then his next words are we do not need help from the federal government.
And what are ICE agents? I haven’t seen the interview, and your interpretation could well be correct, but it could as easily be, “We’ve had enough of federal agents entering our state and arresting and killing our citizens without warrants or due process.” Frankly, no state needs that kind of help. We will see.
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He’s not running for reelection so he has no reason to hold back anymore.
i am not even an american, but i’d really like to live in a world where running for reelection would be the reason not to hold back.
Yeah, running for office they need to seem bland enough to appeal to the most people. It’s kind of a shitty system when you only see their true colors after they are done campaigning. Although, Walz at least has always been pretty transparent in that regard. He’s always just been a small town highschool coach. He’s not a political creature.
I wish we could keep him in office. But in a way I am also glad he’s getting out of politics because especially these past several years it has been clear how hard the job is on him. Him getting out of politics is going to be bad for us but good for him because he is a good person. Asking him to run again would feel like kicking a puppy. He’s the only politician where I’ve ever felt like I needed to apologize to them for voting for them.
Hey just gonna point out that the civil war nearly started some years early due to slave hunters kidnapping folks in Northern states. The only reason that didn’t happen was largely due to luck and folks taking matters into their own hands to off slave hunters. I say this to make the point that this whole situation with ICE ain’t that far off.
The only justice that happens in this country anymore is vigilante
“Should”. Whatever this is just an article nothing is going to happen. Also I don’t really think prosecuting one officer is enough
The FBI is taking over the case and as such MN state prosecutors cannot access any evidence. I don’t know if they can prosecute a case based on just the videos taken from bystanders, but typically there’s a lot more to a legal case.
If the FBI takes over the investigation it will land on the desks of podcasters and grifters who have already gone all-in to protect their bosses from being investigated for raping children, so I don’t think we’re going to see anything satisfying happen here.
I don’t know how many innocent people have to die or what skin color they need to have before people will broadly start to seriously think about regime change on our terms.
Need to start somewhere.
It has to start sometime
What better place than here?
ALL
psst. Your line was, “what better time than now?”
“Now is not a time”
“Should” typically means “must” in the legal sense.
But also consider that getting ICE to leave their agent out to dry would would go a ways in breaking their sense of invulnerability. Same dynamic as getting a police union to dump a cop in the courts.
That’s why the mayor and government should arrest first and ask questions later. The guy is clearly a flight risk, armed, and dangerous. Likely has a criminal record as well.
