They didnt ask me or anyone I know
Have you met people?
I’ll do almost anything to keep my distance.
I have 3 kids. In the city I can afford a 2 bedroom in the suburbs I can get whatever I need. It’s not that I prefer it… It’s not really an option
Ok that’s misleading a bit. The poll asked if you’d rather live in a larger house that’s further from other people but stuff like restaurants are miles away, or smaller and closer together but stuff like restaurants are within walking distance. I’m paraphrasing but only slightly here.
You’re extrapolating the car based and walking based part, but these people could also want more public transportation and bike routes. Maybe these people already live in cramped apartment buildings and just dream of having a big house. There’s other factors than just “me dum American me want car”
Yeah sorry, neighbors are usually assholes who stick their noses in other peoples business. I’ll live as far from other people as I can.
If I could choose my friends as neighbors it’d be different.
Seriously, I just don’t want to be bothered by people or live in an apartment where I get to hear my neighbors or constantly encounter them.
Why?
Why don’t I want to be bothered by or hear all my neighbors? Is this an honest question? Do you like hearing everyone around you? Do you hate peace and quiet?
Because I prefer the peace and quiet. I also do not want to engage in small talk or feel obligated to acknowledge people out of courteousy and maintaining peace with them when I just want to go about my day.
I don’t want to hear people fucking, or fighting, or their kids running around the apartment or any other bullshit that comes with apartment life. Apartments suck ass and I never want to live in one again.
Okay, maybe I don’t know the quality of the apartments you live in because when I want quiet time for me, I just stay in my flat. A simple brick wall is enough to shield from almost anything. Or maybe the society you live in is very different from the society I live in. I actually enjoy seeing and talking to the people that live around me.
And well, the thread is about people preferring single family houses in the US. Those houses on their oversized properties are often completely excluded from any form of community. I feel like this type of lifestyle makes us more and more sociophobic.
In the details, for walkable cities and for the environment, I’m pretty sure there’s a very comfortable middle ground for everyone. We don’t need the density of cities like Paris or Jakarta. But we also don’t need eight football fields of land for a single person, or do we?
Okay, maybe I don’t know the quality of the apartments you live in because when I want quiet time for me, I just stay in my flat. A simple brick wall is enough to shield from almost anything.
US apartments are almost always wood and drywall on the interior. Luxury apts may be an exception. No sound isolation at all. You also can get the heat from the neighbors if they like it hot because the walls don’t stop that either. Any heavy footfalls, people talking, music playing, someone coughing, most of it resonates through the walls/floors/ceilings. The only apartmentI lived in that was an exception to this was in the middle east.
Or maybe the society you live in is very different from the society I live in.
Undoubtedly. Each time I’ve been in apartments, there are a bunch of cunts mixed in with a few nice people.
I actually enjoy seeing and talking to the people that live around me.
I am introverted. I don’t enjoy much socialization. And I really detest small talk. I can only endure so much “hurr durr weather hurr durr sportsball huurrr muh grind”, bullshit before I forcibly evict myself from a conversation. I can do it all and most people will find me pleasant for IRL encounters. But I really don’t like it.
And well, the thread is about people preferring single family houses in the US. Those houses on their oversized properties are often completely excluded from any form of community. I feel like this type of lifestyle makes us more and more sociophobic.
People made me sociophobic. Sociophobic is a strong word for it in my case, but my time interacting with people made me not want to be around people. Has nothing to do with the kind of property I lived in, if anything apartment life made it worse. I see your point, but I’m not sure I agree.
In the details, for walkable cities and for the environment, I’m pretty sure there’s a very comfortable middle ground for everyone.
The unfortunate thing with people is there is no one size fits all solution. I do think we could benefit from more quality multi-tenant housing options. But I also think havingnthe choice to not be in it is valid as well. The US is too far to the sprawl side and dense urban areas are too far to the sardine side. But there are people that enjoy both ends of the spectrum. I’d (personally) prefer more mixed zoning options where a neighborhood can have activity centers and small shops mixed in with the housing and have everything car and bike centric within those sub communities with the cars relegated to non intersecting areas.
We don’t need the density of cities like Paris or Jakarta. But we also don’t need eight football fields of land for a single person, or do we?
Even one football field would be hyperbolic here. Some rich fucks might get that much land, or some people way outside of town. Average people get much much less. To your point though I think that there is a middle ground. But also the freedom of choice should be available. It’s difficult to reduce car usage in sprawl, but better public services would alleviate a ton of that. I would be more than happy to ride a metro, but my state doesn’t have anything like that.
@JigglySackles @Beeen132 The leaf blowers of suburbia are a hell of a lot louder and more annoying than the vast majority of noises people in an apartment can make.
I’ve lived in both. I definitely don’t agree with your perspective. I barely hear any leaf blowers etc year round.
Yeah it’s unclear how much fantasy was allowed with these questions. Like if commute and money and pollution were no object I’d prefer to live on 1000 acres in the mountains with a cabin-mansion and hobby farm.
But realistically for cost and commute I just want a big yard for gardening, and peace and quiet.
If the suburbs weren’t subsizided and homeowners had to pay premiums for living so far from central services it may change their opinion.
How about a any house in a cycling-based community?
Probably due to most of them already living in car based societies that are far apart. Living like that makes me people hate their neighbors, and they want no one to encroach on their kingdoms
Most Americans are selfish fucks.
Signed,
An American.
Some of us have big houses in walkable communities. You can have both, though you have to sacrifice on the yard / lawn (which is a good thing anyways, seeing what Americans do with theirs ; which is to say they do nothing, and on purpose too !)
For me the yard is what I really want. Being able to grow fruits and veggies and attract birds and pollinators is my jam. I think my family could live quite happily with basically a bedroom attached to a big kitchen. But I don’t think I could forfeit the yard.
This was my dilemma. I’m one person with a couple of dogs, I don’t need much interior, but I wanted land to cultivate both as a hobby and for the reward. I settled on a mid-century single wide on a decent lot, and bonus, it had mature trees. I can’t walk to downtown, but I can walk to the grocery store and bike to a bus stop to get to downtown. I do have to Lyft home because our buses quit early, but I’m often intoxicated so that’s safer anyway. The real perk of this is that the neighborhood is older, and while there’s some derelict places who don’t care (junk cars, weeds, dilapidation), it’s nice because no one fucking cares. It’s a mix of people like me turning their smaller, older homes into little bungalows and cottages, backyard chickens and gardens, plus some random peacocks that roam. We trade seeds, put bins of free veggies alongside the road, nod and chitchat. A lot of the US does have the space to create living environments like this, but it’s marketed the idea the house has to take up the whole lot and that landscaping other than perfectly manicured, wrong climate, water-sucking grass is a sin. I do wish our bus system was better, and side roads that encouraged walking/biking were better, but how we live in the communities we have shouldn’t be just dense but walkable or mega-subdivision it takes half an hour to drive out of. We can find ways to balance land use and social desires.
This is my problem. I essentially want a suburban-sized lot, cause I would make use of every inch of it. I really dont want to live surrounded by 1000 other identical lots full of people who just want to have a big patch of non-native turf grass that they are going to complain about in the rare event that I see them actually outside of their house.
I think there are a hell of a lot of people who would actually be happier in just a roomier condo or townhouse if they: 1) had ever lived in one that wasn’t just the cheapest possible student housing, and 2) they weren’t conditioned to believe that a single family detached home is the only place that a non-poor person should live.
Every apartment I have ever lived in has been akin to hell on earth. Loud, unruly neighbors. Unwalkable area. So far away from amenities it takes 15 minutes of driving to get anything. No shade. Bad smells.
Its no wonder. There’s a few awesome neighborhoods i would love to move to, with great walkable street, groceries, books, restaurants all only a few minutes of walking away. I would love to move to those places but they are so expensive I could never dream of it.
Hyperindividualism and apparent institutionalized agoraphobia.
My agoraphobia comes from a lifetime of being bullied by people so I don’t like people. I like my small house and small suburban backyard that I grow vegetables and have chickens in.
with a little AFFLUENZA mixed into it.
I think that it is because many Americans have no experience with the other as a lifestyle.
I’ve had it both ways, and I was never happier than when I was living in Brooklyn, with access to excellent public transit and lots of walking-distance community support.
And, believe it, or not, my cost of living was half the price to living in Orlando, with a car. Also, I made more when living in Brooklyn. also, Orlando sucks.
Orlando sucks
Have been to Orlando once. Can confirm. It sucks. The residents suck. The commercialism sucks. Plus there are tiny lizards everywhere, and you don’t want to step on them, but you’re like "c’mon little guys, I just want to walk on the sidewalk. I don’t want to crush you…but you DO crush them if you walk on the sidewalk. It’s inevitable. And then you feel bad.
I have lived in Tampa for my whole life without ever stepping on a lizard. Yes they are all over, but they aren’t running underfoot. I don’t like Orlando, so haven’t spent much time there but the lizards can’t be that different.
I once (before cell phones put a video recorder in our pockets) saw an epic battle between a lizard and a palmetto bug. They were wrestling, same size as each other, thankfully the lizard eventually won. It was like a miniature version of a Godzilla fight.
Must’ve been a small palmetto bug
Anoles. They’re everywhere. But don’t feel bad, they often drop their tails to evade predators, and also they don’t live long enough to really understand what’s going on with these giants walking on their basking rocks lol.
This is nuts. I lived in Orlando for half a year, and have visited dozens of times (grew up in Tampa Bay) and never once stepped on a lizard there. Genuinely don’t know what you’re talking about. Lizards are all over but they’re not suicidal
It’s even the basic things, like sidewalks. If you never use a sidewalk, why waste money on them? I have neighbors who never clear their snow because “no one uses the sidewalks) (despite all the footprints from people who do). There are too many places without sidewalks and no one cares.
Then of course, the effing cars. In the last few years of more frequent walking places
- I’ve almost gotten hit by someone cutting a corner across the sidewalk
- I’ve almost gotten hit many times bu cars ignoring the crossing signal
- I’ve almost gotten hit many times by cars pulling up fast to a red light and into the crosswalk
- I’ve almost gotten hit many times by cars taking “right on red” without stopping (legally require) or looking around the corner
- almost every time I walk somewhere is inconvenienced by someone parking on the sidewalk
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I believe walking is such an alien concept that they’re just not aware of issues like these
I’ve had it both ways, and there’s nothing that compares to having your own house and land with privacy away from noisy neighbors.
When I lived in a city there were more things to do, and I could bike to work, but the crowding feels like a social prison. Also I saw some people get shot, and thieves stole things from my porch repeatedly.
I grew up in exactly that kind of environment; really, the land (and the wildlife that comes with it) is the bit I miss the most. I’d take a very modest house on a decent plot of land in the middle of the woods to living in a city.
I want to live in a modest house within walking distance of downtown and unspoiled wilderness. How do I make this happen?
Look for an older town, built out before cars.
I have a lot of that where I live
- walkable downtown, centered on a train station - settled since 1600s, bedroom community of a major city
- first zone for single family homes so I do have a small yard/driveway/basement yet still walkable to center of town
- I got one of the “new” houses, built in 1946 out of very solid materials, with a usable basement, yard, and driveway. For example, my own EV charging
- just a few blocks away is a sizable reservation of undeveloped land and a six mile loop of ridge trail - we occasionally get coyotes that presumably live there
You just have to move to a town with a one street down town. Small town life is a mixed bag
Any small town in New England
Such as? I feel like New England is like 90% sprawling suburbs like the rest of the country.
Also by downtown I do mean a real downtown with actual amenities.
A lot of bigger cities do have car-dependent sprawl around an unaffordable city center like Portland, Hartford, Burlington etc but a lot of the smaller towns are much more walkable and community-oriented, where you can probably afford a quarter acre lot within walking distance of a downtown. Brattleboro is a good example but getting pricey, Bennington maybe, Hanover NH, Montpelier, Farmington ME etc.
You’re not going to find Boston-level amenities in i.e. Brattleboro but you’ll get a minimum of a coffee shop or two, a brewery, a few good restaurants, shops, etc. plus small-town community and an affordable home
@LibertyLizard @btsax Look at the MBTA commuter rail map (or NJ Transit, SEPTA around Philadelphia, or Metra around Chicago). A lot of the regional rail stops are in or near historic downtowns that provide some downtown amenities plus rail access to the bigger city. Houses near those downtowns are generally more expensive than sprawlier suburbs but cheaper than the central city.
Yeah that’s probably the closest that exists honestly.
But really what I want does not exist.
NYC, next to central park?
Oh sure let me just ask my parents for a small loan of a million dollars so I can afford rent.
Also Central Park is not exactly unspoiled wilderness. It is nice but not quite what I want.
Some remote towns in Canada give land away for free or for a very low price.
Agreed. I live in a walkable city and would love to live somewhere with no neighbors who think blasting “She thinks my tractor’s sexy” on repeat eight hours a day is perfectly fine.
Might I suggest buying an audio spotlight, pointing it at the offending house, and then blasting Baby Shark at them on repeat?
Perhaps. However, we have to acknowledge that there’s a price to be paid for this - particularly an environmental price - and it’s not the householder who pays that price. If where we lived didn’t have consequences for other people then it wouldn’t be an issue. But when these decisions lock in urban sprawl, car dependency and excess emissions, they become everybody’s business
Or are so unfit that walking places sounds like an insurmountable challenge.
It’s almost certainly not insurmountable unless you have something like COPD. I’m 70, went for almost two years after having covid where I could barely walk around the block, and now I can walk or cycle for hours over any terrain. It’s hilly here, so that’s saying something. I also lost almost 50 pounds that I’d gained during my period of enforced inactivity. There’s no secret. Just start slow and keep doing it, and lay off the junk food.
I live in one of my state’s few walkable neighborhoods adjacent to a downtown core, when I try to explain to others in the area what it’s like, well, they’ve never had any reason to use sidewalks besides the yearly trick-or-treat around the cul-de-sac. Vaguely know their neighbors as they wave in passing.
For me the best part was getting a job downtown, by a park, so I can exist almost feeling like a much larger city proper. Main library, tons of restaurants, shops. Historic homes. Neighbors who care for each other and feel like extended family. This is what ‘urban’ can and should feel like - community.
Yeah, this feels more like “people haven’t experienced being in a walkable community with good transit”. My buddy is having to move back to the States after a year in Germany, and he’s so upset that he and his wife are gonna have to get a car again and not just walk/bike everywhere.
Like capitalism, they’re told that it is the best and only option.
plenty of American vloggers on YT saying exactly that. Most people are bereft of imagination or prescience.
They want to live a socially miserable life.
If i were too fat to walk, i would too
That’s not the only reasons you might not be able to walk, and we do need to keep non-walkers in mind when designing cities.
I believe there are better solutions that each individual operating a multi-ton machine that requires non-renewable resources. (Even my EV requires tire changes, and AFAIK, we haven’t figured out a cyclic economy for them.)
The EU managed to have about 97% tire recovery, so why should the US not be capable of it as well?
Thank you for the link, TIL. I really thought it was still a bigger problem than that.
My point mostly stands; I’d personally like to get to where I feel independent without a personal vehicle, and I think it would be better for all of us if there were fewer of them in active use.
I have the best of both worlds: small house in a car-based community. Sigh.
54% of Americans read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
I bet there’s a lot of overlap between these two groups.
