Those of you who still use windows for one reason or more, where do you draw the line about the shitty things microsoft is doing? By drawing the line I mean using some other operating system no matter how bothersome it might be.
Not judging or anything, i’m just curious where the general mindset is about it.
My red line is easy. No windows on my computers. That rule stands since before my first kid was born, and she is by now finishing university…
Microsoft drew the line. They wanted me to buy a new computer for their new OS. Not happening.
As a mechanical engineer, I have bad news for y’all…
Already drawn. Recently switched to linux on my work laptop. And I work with my supporting M365.
When I can reliably get Game Pass to run on Linux, or if Game Pass becomes not worth it.
Hmm, i might have written my question slightly wrong, since i wanted to know what would the the proverbial last straw microsoft does to make someone switch away from windows, while they currently dont plan on switching 😅
But these are good answers too.
I drew the line at “Ads in the start menu,” and fully switched when a game that I’ve played on and off for ~15 years started working on Linux. I’ve been using Linux for most of my life, but I uninstalled Windows for the last time about 4 years ago
I can give my historical experience. Early 2025, I saw horrific articles on Copilot and decided to switch early. I had a bad distro hopping experience. First tried Linux Mint, might have been a slightly old install, but even my wifi didn’t work. Tried a later install, and it was much better, but game performance wasn’t great. Hitman WOA didn’t even load levels. Helldivers 2 had an annoying white border (I eventually fixed this a year later using an odd hack)
I then tried Bazzite. I didn’t quite like the layout, but it functioned. I had a hard time installing apps; it tried to simplify this with various virtualization/containerized solutions, but it meant so many tutorials for basic native-Linux apps didn’t work.
When W10 EOL came around, I tried another distro well touted: CachyOS. It was very smooth. I learned it’s Arch, same as the Steam Deck, and does have some “technical complexities” which I felt I wanted to avoid, but I guess in the end it’s been nothing I’m not a little used to from my work as a programmer. It mostly uses okay UIs for system settings, and some programs require you to use another package installer rather than their default “Octopi”. Some of my early issues came from installing Flatpaks rather than Arch User Repository items.
Games have been fantastic. Rarely when something uses video I need ProtonGE, which is an easy toggle; I should probably just make it default. Helldivers 2 and Division 2 seem to run better than on Windows.
The biggest decider has been: Changing to Linux was NOT annoyance free. There was transition, there was fiddly configuration, and I replaced some apps I use. A key thing is, Windows was quickly moving away from being annoyance free - stuffing Copilot and OneDrive ads into EVERYTHING. So, even accepting a few Linux struggles ended up being an overall lesser frustration.
At first I expected cachy to be just arch with calamares and kde but when I checked they even have their own kernel version. Very sophisticated.
I haven’t made the switch off of Windows, but I have started dabbling in Linux. I am ok with tech, better than the average person, but I don’t know anything about programming or coding or any of it. I have a Raspberry Pi, some other electronic stuff, and a book that is project based teaching of python. I’ve spent the last month or so reading up on self hosting, Linux, and other open source stuff.
My biggest hesitation is World of Warcraft. It’s the only game I play, it’s the only game I’ve ever really played, and I don’t want to lose access to that. I have started looking into how wow is run on Linux. But I’m not ready to fully switch yet.
You can play WoW on Linux, though there may be a few extra hoops to jump through when installing the BattleNet client. Hell, there was even a test case where someone got it running on their SteamDeck as a proof of concept.
It runs in Wine or Lutris, which acts as a compatibility layer. The compatibility layer doesn’t emulate Windows directly. It just translates the Windows-specific stuff into something that Linux can use, and vice-versa. That’s why lots of games can actually run better on Linux, because you’re running a Windows native program without fully emulating Windows. So you don’t have all of the Windows bloat that tends to bog down gaming PCs.
I just can’t get my steam to run with lutris.
Oh I know, I’ve been looking into it recently. I remember days when gaming was the sole reason for not switching to Linux, but I’m also aware that it’s improved a lot since then.
I’m sure I can get it working, but I don’t feel comfortable switching completely until I’ve played with Linux a bit, which is exactly what I’ve started doing. I’ve started backing up documents and files onto separate hard drives so I can prepare to switch, I’m just not quite ready yet.
I’ve played it on Linux by installing Battle.net through Lutris. There are guides specifically about how to do it.
Yeah, I’ve started reading the guides on how to install it. Wow is the one thing that has really given me pause, the only thing really. But Windows is getting so frustrating that I am actually making myself comfortable with Linux so I can switch.
Do you have any guides specific you would recommend?
I use windows because the fire code mandates it, and cause having sunlight in rooms is nice. Also I can see the weather and when the mail arrives.
My dog’s use Windows to spot their dreaded enemy, the squirrel.
We will never be able to repay them for this vigilance
My gaming desktop is only running Windows out of inertia at this point. Windows 10 LTSC specifically; I’m just waiting on the security updates to stop. Everything else in my house is already running something better.
I use Windows 11 as a desktop OS, mostly because it came preinstalled on the laptop, a bunch of apps run on it (Affinity, some photography stuff, Clip Studio Paint, and FL Studio mostly - and I’m aware Davinci Resolve has a linux port but installing it looked like a pain and a half), and for early part of its existence, I thought Windows 11 used to be kinda good actually. …Bunch of really silly stuff on Microsoft’s part has happened since, though, and it has made me very grumpy toward them and I think they’re really busy - what do the kid say these days? - losing the plot.
I already dialed back my Xbox subscription (guys, you don’t hike a price by over 100€ a year when the price was already damn high!), and already dialed back my Office subscription (yeah I don’t need Copilot, thanks) and will probably cancel it altogether next time the bill is due. …oh and my game purchases have mostly gone to Steam lately.
I use Linux (Debian variants) almost everywhere else, currently on a junk desktop PC (Debian/KDE) and Raspberry Pi 4, mostly for development stuff. I don’t think there’d be a huge pain in the neck in moving to Linux again, especially since I already use a lot of open source apps (and I’ve generally preferred software with sensible purchase terms, etc), but it’s not a huge pressing issue right now.
Why anyone is OK with Microsoft’s key logging of everything including passwords is beyond me.
I thought this was about recall but no, there is a second keylogger in Windows lol
Step 4: Toggle the switch off under Getting to Know You. The keylogger is now off.
Well that’s not creepy at all…
Oh, don’t worry your little head. Microsoft is taking very special care of all your passwords and nothing bad can happen.
But seriously, I would be shocked if Microsoft’s password stores weren’t already hacked. I think at some point Windows users are going to wake up to some very unpleasant news.
Thank you for mentioning that, wasn’t aware it was doing that. Disabled it now.
You can find plenty more shit like this just taking a scroll through the settings app/menu. Anything mentioning “predictions”, “suggestions”, “send data to microsoft”, “help us make your experience better”, “automatic personilazation”, “use your data to improve”, “telemetry” and the like is data collection for Microsoft’s sake with little to no direct impact on the function of the OS or other software.
So, it’s easy to point fingers at a scary sounding sub-system and scream, but has anyone done any true analysis of what the feature actually does?
There’s plenty of ways to check this shit. Just off the top of my head, checking the files it accesses using process explorer would be a start. Should be pretty obvious if one of them grows with keystrokes.
Those are some pretty damn big claims for “trust me bro”.
It used to be that with shit like this you could actually find stuff like “Hey, I’ve analyzed network traffic from the PC, and can confirm that once an hour it’s sending encrypted data to a server in Redmond that matches the size of the image thumbnails generated by Explorer in the last hour. If Explorer hasn’t generated thumbnails in that time, no data is sent.” with receipts when someone claimed that MS was collecting everyone’s image thumbnails.
Now it’s just Microsoft bad! Trust me bro!
Regardless of validity though, it concerns me that people use their computers without taking 30 minutes to go through the settings and shut off shit they don’t want.
Whether the implementation of this is a true keylogger or not, I get no benefit out of Microsoft analyzing my typing, and I’m not using any sort of touch screen or stylus so handwriting analysis is a waste too.
I disabled it within the first hour post-install.
So, it’s easy to point fingers at a scary sounding sub-system and scream, but has anyone done any true analysis of what the feature actually does?
There’s this search engine called Google and it magically returns lists of technical articles from sources who have done exactly that.
Now it’s just Microsoft bad! Trust me bro!
Microsoft’s keylogging started with a Windows 7 update and has been well documented for over a decade, but I’m sure you can find something more to your liking from a Youtube paid shill who will tell you how great Microsoft is.
Cool it with the attitude. If it’s so easy to find this evidence, you could have posted links yourself to it instead of whatever the hell you think this is. Public shaming?
There’s plenty of easily proven reasons to hate Microsoft without pulling stuff out of our collective asses. Like the collection of image thumbnails I already mentioned, which as I said was confirmed (as much as analyzing SSL encrypted web traffic can be without breaking the encryption) by traffic analysis.
I have a decade of experience doing tech work in Windows environments. More than half of that time now in systems administration and infrastructure “engineering”. I’m better versed in Microsoft’s bullshit than the average bear, and I’m definitely not trying to argue they’re great.
Proof of this sort of thing can make a career in infosec, so I don’t have any issues believing that people have been digging deep for any evidence of this. If direct evidence is out there, you’re right that it shouldn’t be hard to find.
Did my research, I'm not finding the hard evidence.
That said, all I’m finding are unsourced insistences that it exists, and that those particular settings to disable it. I’ve done writeups before on Wi-fi security citing white papers and thesis research. Usually I have no issues finding the hard evidence, even the crazy cryptographic math fomulae behind certain cryptography related security issues.
For this though? From what I can find, there’s no direct evidence this is a keylogger in the traditional “stealing your data” sense. There’s no evidence of the typing data being stored on disk or transmitted back to “home base”.
I’m also finding plenty of conversations in information security communities online (and a few news articles) saying what I’ve already said here. It seems to be clickbait headlines that have turned into an urban myth of sorts.
What I’ve found in regards to it not being a keylogger (in so far as you can attempt to prove a negative):
- Reddit post about how to disable the predictive text features, calling it a keylogger. Lots of comments pointing out the misleading wording of calling it that, that predictive text is common, that it asks you if you want it or not during install, and that it doesn’t store the stuff anywhere for people to be able to use it to look at previous input.
- Reddit r/netsec discussion of reasons pointing towards Windows not keylogging everyone, and the types of signs security professionals and others would look for as proof of it. Signs that aren’t there.
- Another reddit post asking about the truth of the keylogger headlines, asking for any technical evidence, much like I am. None provided.
- Specific comment on a reddit post about telemetry in the Calculator application, where someone actually looks at the damn .cpp file under the hood with the data logging functions and finds that they are only active with a debugger process attached. Notes that this is pretty common practice with a lot of programs to ease debugging.
- Stack Exchange discussion of the keylogger claims/headlines. Same shit, notably misleading headlines, no hard evidence known.
The best evidence in favor of the keylogger are discussions about keylogging in the Windows 10 Preview builds, which Microsoft was explicitly open and direct about. But even this is somewhat suspect, and there’s no evidence even close to what was found in the preview builds that this is occurring in the prod releases.
There’s also a mountain of articles like this one that again, point to the written privacy policy and settings like they’re definitive evidence, but again I’m finding no WireShark analysis, no testing through multiple VMs or a control install and an install with tons of keyboard input, no actual testing and results, no snippets of code from any of the source code leaks in the last decade. No hard proof.
So now I’ve danced to your tune. I’ve “done my research”.
If this is so damn obvious, please for the love of all that is holy just link me the damn receipts. I promise I can handle whatever hacker writeups, white-papers, etc that you could throw at me. I want to see them. Please don’t blueball me.
I posted about a long known Microsoft practice with a link to one of dozens of 3rd party articles about that practice. You objected to the very idea Microsoft would do something like this, and without doing the slightest bit of research (or apparently even clicking the link) responded, “Now it’s just Microsoft bad! Trust me bro!”
You fucking “cool it with the attitude.”
BTW - I’d have no problem providing links for something difficult to research, but this isn’t much more difficult than asking Google the time. You are evidentially capable of typing, so “for the love of all that is holy” open a new tab and ask Google yourself.
I read your link, and you need to retake basic literacy if you believe that satisfies any sort of proof. All it says is “Microsoft totally has a keylogger, this setting disables it.” It does not show any evidence of the claim. It does not link to evidence of that claim.
No one’s arguing that they aren’t gathering typing data. I’m arguing that it isn’t a full-on keylogger siphoning passwords.
Please stop fighting a strawman. I’ve not said anything good about Microsoft here. I’ll insist again that I’m more familiar with their rot than most, given my career.
I did Google, with multiple search terms. Check my last post again. There’s a spoiler with plenty under it. It’s the line in a section all it’s own that says “Did my research, I’m not finding the hard evidence.” Tap to expand the multiple paragraphs not only summarizing my findings but also linking specific examples. If you have some specific issue with what I found, let’s hear it.
I’ll state it again and clearly: Everyone should turn off the feature. But hundreds of sites copy pasting the same article, the headline claiming it’s a keylogger, the same instructions to disable predictive text data collection, and nothing else is not evidence. It’s copy paste tech support slop.
If sites claiming things about how Windows worked were reliable, or repetition meant reality, “sfc /scannow” wouldn’t be a meme in the sysadmin world. 90% of the time it doesn’t help. It’s a specific tool for fixing issues caused by corruption to the OS files, not the cure all it’s touted to be by many sources.
So show me some network traffic analysis. Show me a whitepaper. Show me a security reseacher’s write up. Show me process explorer screenshots showing the file lock for the file where the data is stored. Show me someone testing two default Windows installs in VMs, one with keystrokes entered and one without, and the clear difference in network traffic, file activity, anything.
Anything more than simply saying “trust me bro”.
Because headlines can’t be wrong right? The CrowdStrike outage was totally an issue with Microsoft Update, as originally reported far and wide, and not an issue with an update to CrowdStrike software running at kernel level that mirrored the same issue they caused in Linux deployments a few months earlier. People still don’t get that wrong, not at all.
Look. The ball’s in your court. Again, if it’s so easy, prove it. Stop wasting effort trying to rub my nose in it like I’m a bad dog, and just prove I’m wrong.
My research doesn’t show what you insist is so evident it doesn’t need to be sourced. If it’s as you say, spoonfeed me. Prove it. It’ll be faster, and I’ll gladly edit all my previous comments here to say whatever disparaging thing about myself you desire.
Crow is delicious and I look forward to eating it.
Come. On.
Edit: I’m not normally the kind of person to look up who up/downvoted me, but I spent the better part of an hour trying to find evidence in support of this guy’s claim. Apparently it’s easier to downvote than prove me wrong in such a simple way that they claimed I couldn’t have done a google search or I would have found it.
So let’s fucking go. I’ll extend this “bet” to anyone.
Show me evidence that Microsoft is capturing all (or most) keystrokes, specifically including passwords entered across multiple programs, through the setting for predicitve text and handwriting analysis which can be switched off through the settings menu, it is happening on live/prod/general use releases of Windows, not preview builds, and it does not rely on unlikely edge cases like a user somehow accidentally running Calculator with a debugger attached to the process and then typing passwords into Calculator.
Note: Being able to hijack the service and exploit speculative execution shit like spectre to access other areas in memory doesn’t count. This has to be inteded behavior.
If you can prove that for Windows 7, 10, or 11, I will do just about anything you want as a punishment. Want me to speedrun getting banned across the fediverse? Want me to make a video smearing peanut butter on my junk while singing your praises?
No doxxing myself, no physical harm, permanent body modifications, nothing that would get the cops called, make me ill, or jeapordize my job. Monetary cost can’t be over $20. Thinking more like I’d write that you were right on my ass, make it my profile picture here, and edit every comment I made on here (over 4000 at time of writing) to add praises for you and to point to my shame. That sort of thing.
If you can get the instance admins in on it, I’d fully accept old 4chan rules of deliver or suffer permaban.
Just to cover my ass for Microsoft doing something dumb as hell with Recall, that doesn’t count (see specifications about it having to be connected to this predictive text/handwriting thing), and this offer is only valid for the year of 2026.
I have a PC running Windows 11 Professional that I use exclusively for gaming. It works fine for that and it doesn’t annoy me with OneDrive or Copilot etc.
I’m open to switching to Linux on that machine if Windows starts to annoy me, but as it stands Windows runs all my games without issues and I can’t be arsed messing with things that aren’t broken.
I wouldn’t dream of running Windows on a computer used for anything other than gaming though. Currently I use a Mac as a daily driver, but I’ve also used Linux in the past. The main reason for using macOS is that I spend too much time messing with computers at work to want to do it in my free time too. The Apple ecosystem makes it easy to have everything integrated without much effort. I’m aware it’s probably an unpopular opinion around here.
I’d estimate about a month or two adjustment period of being involved in computer focus depending on what you need to setup.
It can shorten down to weeks if it’s just a basic setup.
After that you’re just booting up and using just like you would with windows or Mac.
Just occasionally gotta open a shell and type dnf update && upgrade to run an update. That’s about the extent of it if you’re going super basic.
the line is when I can do everything I need to do in a better operating system. why would it be anything else
im using Arch btw
