I agree that you can do those things and be morally right, I was just using it as an example because the Christians often use it as an example of the types of things they’d be doing if they were allowed to.

Which sort of demonstrates that even while they may not agree or be consciously aware of it, they do have an idea of the type of morals they’d follow if they didn’t believe in God. Because that’s the example of the thing they’d want to do instead of say, just murdering people, it shows they would likely follow the “golden rule” idea (treat others the way you want to be treated).

I remember towards the end of my belief I sort of viewed it like there are things that are wrong according to my religion (like being gay) and there are things that are universally wrong (like murder). The big difference was that universal wrongs involved harm. I didn’t see the harm in being gay (because there is none, lol), so I didn’t believe it was something Christians should try to stop non Christians from doing. Yes, I was experiencing a lot of cognitive dissonance lol. This topic basically led to my eventually and final moment of rejecting my belief in God. I could no longer reconcile the idea of a loving, benevolent god with the idea that harmless activities were sin. It all fell apart shortly after. I’d already long been on a shaky foundation of “I think the American Church is bad, but Jesus is good” sort of stance. But it’s all interconnected. Once you start to believe some of the stories are metaphors or myths, they all start to become metaphors or myths. If you don’t believe in a literal virgin birth and literal resurrection, then the entire divinity and sacrifice of Jesus comes into question. And what did I have left? Nothing.

But my life is so much better now. Nothing has been more freeing than leaving the church and leaving behind the idea of god. Sorry this sort of got big and personal lol. Happy pride.

Ezekiel 23:20 is my daily affirmation

A radical new take on religion, I dig it.

At least I know why they’re anti-gay now.

There can be no debate with somebody who believes that truth is derived entirely from the interpreted vibes of an apparently unfathomable entity. You can justify anything as long as you know it’s coming from an ultimate authority.

come to a conclusion that vibes right,

So vibe-coding, but for religion. Makes sense.

Someone make a spin of that old capitalist mindset meme with the button “press to get 1 million bucks but a random person dies” and they spam the shit out of it. But now it’s you (and me) hammering away at that “you get nothing but a random billionaire or pedophile dies” buzzer.

Killing in defense of innocent people is morally upright nearly without question, so you’d be clean either way.

But I’m with you that if I had a death note things would he different.

That’s kind of the second part, about removing them from society. Death is one mechanism for achieving that.

I’ve been trying to reframe things like this in my mind.

Instead of contemplating if the world would be better if they were gone, I tell myself that my wish would be for them to just be a good person.

I’m not trying to be righteous. But I think, framed like that, a good person would choose the latter. And if it really came down the power to disappear somebody, I think most people would err on the side of good.

But retribution and vengeance are strong in our lizard brains.

Fair. But different than “wanting to kill” someone. You want to remove harm. Like the whole purpose of prison, leper colonies, community shaming, etc

It’s that if I had a guaranteed way of stopping these people with no personal risk, I would feel obligated to do so

I understand the impulse. But I might also posit that an individual with the power to kill with impunity will quickly become a tool of national media and demagoguery. We’re seeing this play out in the age of Trump, with people like Laura Loomer and Steven Miller whispering in his ear to devastating consequence.

Anyone who claims they’d be more clear-eyed, more level-headed, and more rational need only go back a president or two to Joe Biden (genocide in Gaza) and Barack Obama (drone striker in chief, from Libya to Afghanistan). You’re going to have a modern day Allen Dulles on your shoulder, telling you all about how you’re going to be greeted as a Liberator once you put down the pen. And you’re going to kill a whole lot of people for reasons that make you feel good, but end up doing a lot of evil.

If nothing else, consider how many folks in NATO countries would have - if given the Death Note - immediately scribbled the names of a dozen world leaders from rival countries? And then a dozen political leaders from rival parties? And then a dozen national celebrities and media figures with rival ideologies? And then what would the consequences of this be? Did Iranian government become better when Khomanie’s name ended up in the book?

FFS, they explore this in the Anime. Light ends up killing a lot of good people simply because he’s personally resentful or fearful of being caught.

They didn’t say that people like that shouldn’t have consequences, drastic and significant ones, but they may disagree with the specifics.

Additionally, raping and murdering is what the quote is saying is wrong. The original quote does not state an opinion on using death as a penalty for these acts. For such a consequence, one could argue that it is necessary to distinguish murder and capital punishment as two separate acts, with the latter being justified.

Finally, the quote is meant to point out to most people that regardless of their religious beliefs, they have a moral compass that is not contingent on their religious beliefs and that most people’s compass will generally point in similar directions. One could then conclude that religion is not required to know right from wrong.

Wanting to kill someone and wanting someone to be killed are quite different.

Wanting someone to face justice and wanting them dead are also quite different.

Yeah, “other causes” 😉

Mine overdosed.

Sounds good to me! All bow down to daanii or be purged! PURGE THE HERETICS!

The shopping cart wants to be free!

the assumption of correctness is a consequence of accrued education and experience

Not really, no.

Would you want x done to you?

If not, don’t do it to others.

It’s as simple as that.

I think this is also why there’s more “criminality” in opressed communities. Why would I work or sacrifice to uphold a system that is unfair to me? If I don’t believe in it, if I don’t see benefit from it, why should I attach my own ethics to it?

I can’t believe someone made such a good post and still got downvoted for it. It’s not a disagree button…

If you actually want to rape/steal than you’re probably too far gone for Christ’s forgiveness anyways.

Actually, at least in scripture, facing and resisting temptation is a virtue. There is a whole story about Jesus going into the desert to expose himself to the devil’s temptation just to flex his morally superior willpower.

On a Christian blues album I listened to as a kid, there was also a song (“Fireproof”, I think?) that has the devil tempt the narrator in various ways, with the result always being “Ain’t no way, devil: I’ve been washed in the blood of the lamb. Ain’t no use, I’m fireproof.”

It’s a whole theme. In the flavour I grew up with, there was this undercurrent of “we’re constantly fighting a spiritual war”, so facing temptation was a battle, and defying it a victory in that war.

Of course, that encouraged talking up the severity of the temptation you faced to make your victory look even greater, Caesar style: “Look at this strong, vicious adversary that the superior Roman Legions (under my command) overcame!” I’d credit that parish with many things, but excessive honesty is not among them.

Shame about the album though, it was a banger.

If you actually want to rape/steal than you’re probably too far gone for Christ’s forgiveness anyways.

Unfortunately they tell themselves that Jesus forgives all, so they don’t think they have to deal with consequences of their actions

Yeah a decent amount would. Even more would say no but do it anyways… Even back in the days when everyone believed they were eternally damned if they killed someone or worse.

There is both a nature and nurture aspect to empathy, like most of our behaviors. Even toddlers share some things and gain enjoyment from it without prompting even if they are ‘selfish’ with most things.

I’m really struggling to wrap my head around it being a learned skill because it feels like second nature to me. Sometimes to my own detriment. But maybe that’s because it’s pretty common for ADHD folk to have high empathy.

Doctor Viktor Frankl and the entire field of logo therapy would disagree with you. Part of our entire motivation for life is finding meaning, empathy is one of the more basic ways we help ourselves find that meaning. Evolutionarily speaking altruism is pretty beneficial for members of a social species such as us.

Most humans are naturally empathetic, and it’s such a core feature that nothing can strip that away from them