this is a great sentiment if everyone around you is rational, intelligent and sophisticated. but they’re fucking not.
my mother terrorized my sister and i as children and everyone in the family knew about the abuse. but she’s ok.
me? i don’t get invited to the family BBQs because i experimented with psychedelics.
This is normalized already. I would call out a friend or relative for these things. I do hold people close to me accountable for things I deem “poor behavior”.
But also, how normalized should it be to judge people? Your coworker doesn’t show up to church every Sunday? Shun them at work. Found out a new friend doesn’t see their family because they used to have substance abuse problems? Cut them off. Neighbors don’t speak English? Call ice. Your friend converted to Islam and now wears a hijab? Confront her husband.
I’m sure this will get downvoted, but I just wanna point out that people all have different values and openly judging or criticizing people for their lives can lead to the sorts of echo chambers and social bubbles we see today.
i’d hope you don’t get downvoted for pointing out the obvious.
people seem to think the internet is real life and forget that ‘progressive social media posters’ probably make up 1% of the population and then never leave the house on top of that. in real life, i’ve met more rabid skunks that quote oscar wilde.
First thing to do is talking. Then act according to their response
I’d love for someone to talk shit at me for bringing my partner instead of my wife to something.
They’d get told to eat shit from 3 different people lol
If we all did this the narcissists would have no power left
They would still have their manosphere podcasts
So it’s actually gender discrimination.
I feel bad for them
They can use my razor blades to end their suffering
It’s the least I can offer those poor, tragic souls
Married people bring sude pieces to family events? Thats fucking wild. Not terribly surprising, but wild.
I used to work with a married guy who brought his girlfriend to company parties. He was so open about it, I wondered if his wife knew and was okay with it.
I work with a guy and him and his wife are definitely in an open relationship, I barely know the guy and I’m fully aware of this fact however there are people that have worked with this guy for nearly a decade and they whisper about it, like yeah she knows, y’all are idiots.
Work parties also seems super weird, but bbq makes me think friends and family. Of course if the married couple is open or whatever then sure.
Are side pieces affairs? I thought about an extra piece for the bbq, like a sausage or a side dish :|
'Murica
That aint normal in Murica. At least not at the bbqs I go to.
Ostracizing used to work because we needed community. Now they will just go on the Internet and find hundreds if not thousands pro approve what they’re doing.
And whatever the “village” did for a person can be bought with money. And people don’t really do free work for you anyway, maybe your immediate family but that’s about it. So people are more and more individualistic.
While I agree that it’s lost a lot of its power. Social pressure is still good at making people uncomfortable in the current setting. And can pressure them into leaving or avoiding that situation in the future.
The balls of someone bringing their side piece to a BBQ. There are families and friends that wouldn’t call out that shit? I mean I get one or two but a whole BBQ of ppl?
Also, if you’ve ever said “how I raise my kids is my business”, you might be a shit parent
Depends on context, too. Counter-point, for example: “You let your boy wear pink? He’s gonna be a sissy.” “You should take your kids to the church the rest of us go to.” “She/he’s too young/old to do ___.” I could imagine a few good reasons to tell people to mind their own business.
But yeah, we’ve really got to look at ourselves in the mirror frequently and make sure we’re not just shutting out constructive criticism. Brains adapt, and that can rationalize bad things.
That’s a stupid take. If you ‘normalize shaming’ (which, to be fair, is quite common nowadays unfortunately) for things you don’t agree with, you will make your own life miserable, and people will hate you for a good reason.
Sure you should talk to friends and family when you see them acting problematic, nothing wrong with that. But shaming people for things you THINK you understand (when you most certainly don’t) is the fastest way to push people away.
It’s a correct take if you have an audience of strangers though. So it’s not that bad when it comes from a social media post like this.
Calling out behavior is better at shaping a community than moderation behind closed doors
“side piece” being problematic in itself, there are many who would use this wrongly.
A family who sees someone with a partner they don’t approve of, the extremely religious not accepting divorce/remarriage etc
Don’t worry, a lot of these people are already very vocal about this, they don’t need some post online to start being shitty.
And isn’t the entire internet just a giant indifferent shaming machine now? Like I get the desire to right wrongs and whatnot but it’s not like the general consensus around cheating or being a deadbeat is positive.
Shame was from the beginning of man kind one of the most powerful tools of the community/ society to hedge in antisocial behaviors.
This being said there first needs to be sentient consensus on what is anti social behavior shared within the affected community… and that’s what we’re apparently lacking currently. Robbing millions of americans of the means to life peaceful and fullfilling lives and raping kids seems to acceptable to at least a third of the population.
Exactly. Ethics can differ. Of course you can say something privately if there is a real problem, but this is some 1950s bullshit I don’t want to go back to
dude the '50s people just gossipied behind eachothers backs, and hid any problematic behaivor under a rug so no one found out.
Their silence on real issues is why generational trauma keeps going.
what you mean go back to that shit?
Yes, that’s true, but I meant about restrictive social norms. One person’s reprehensible norm breaking is another person’s struggle for recognition. But you’re right, publicly calling out stuff is not what I meant
for example, a poly couple would be shamed in the 50’s, or anything not heteronormative. I see what you mean
I do this with Trump supporters in my family.
Not trump voters, Trump supporters. To this day, they don’t regret their vote, and they actively support.
Human garbage.
Tbh, anyone who voted for him a second time is equally as bad. They saw the first round and weren’t mortified.
Good thing they will have a 3rd chance voting for him to get it right!
hopefully /s?
They have already had three chances to vote for him. Anyone who voted for him in 2016 is a forgivable idiot. Anyone who voted for him in 2020 approves of everything he did in his first term. Anyone who voted for him in 2024 approves of everything he did in his first term AND approves of what happened on January 6th. Voting for him or supporting him after that is not forgivable.
Starting fights is an easy way to get tossed in jail A lot of people just need to calm T.F. down or maybe just go talk to a doctor and get some prescription pills to make them less antisocial
Removed by mod
You’re correct. I’ve been to jail, and I have prescriptions for mental health. Your point, sir?
FTD, MAGArds, and the Gang of Pedophiles (GOP). If you support any of this nonsense, you’re human garbage. It’s that easy. If you don’t support it, yet give someone shit for their comments about people who do support it, well…
This is a variation of something overused to the point of cliche, but… There’s a table of 11 Nazis having dinner. They ask you to join them and you oblige. There are now 12 Nazis having dinner at the table.
The absolute certainty on Lemmy that the far left opinion is the only allowable opinion on any topic (that your comment exudes in spades) has actually been very useful to me. For many years I’d started to side more and more with liberal and even some leftist ideas, but Lemmy has been a wakeup call, that I need to examine a lot of that much more critically. I’m not MAGA and I’m not leftist, they’re both extremist hate groups. Having a difference of opinion doesn’t make the other person a Nazi or human garbage. You write and act just like the racist far right that would post Obama ape memes, but from the other side. No I don’t expect you or anyone else on here to be able to admit that right now, because you’re too far gone and are a self reinforcing cult bubble. I do hope that at least some people on here someday can wake up and realize “Oh I was really certain about so many things, but now I realize the world is a much more complex and nuanced place. I was wrong. I spread hate and made the world a worse place, but maybe I can do better.”
I hope you don’t ever have children
I’ve seen many various kinds of your ilk over the years, but I’ve never actually met one that wasn’t secretly a right-winger in disguise, just poorly trying to make it seem like both sides are equally as bad, when one side openly traffics in child abuse, naked greed, and hatred of the American people.
Carry on as you are. If you end up murdering some people in a violent political rage maybe those decades in prison will cool your head a little.
I’m not a Republican, so there’s basically no chance of that ever happening.
It sure is interesting that your mind goes to violence so quickly.
Or, should I say, predictable. Very predictable.
“Guys, I wish you’d at least hear out the man’s reasons for beating his wife; why are you so intolerant?”
Yes, you need to examine everything very very critically. The fact that you think that’s some gotcha is telling. Now that I’m being a dick to you about how you should obviously fucking examine your positions very critically are you not going to do it because I wasn’t nice about it? You’re an idiot.
Do you even know how to read? Because you obviously don’t understand a word I said.
I think they mean a verbal altercation, not a fistfight.
You dingus
People are getting tossed in jail over verbal altercations?
I think the expectation that you cut off your friends when they do something you don’t like is a little out of control though… I’ve definitely lost friends over the way they treat their children but there are some steps before that imo.
Yeah, like talk to them. Which is in OP’s main point.
Oh, I see. I read that as two separate points and not a continuation of the same thought.
I was agreeing with you, lol. I see that sounds snarky too now that I reread it. My bad.
Lol that’s okay! It was clear we were both thinking the same things about it anyway regardless of internet ambiguity in tone
And then we can reinstate witch trials.
You feeling called-out there, champ?
I can’t even imagine NOT saying a LOT of stuff if someone in my family I knew was in a monogamous relationship brought someone they were cheating with to a family function. I’d immediately tell on them then tell them I told on them right after and if they didn’t leave right away I’d be grilling them both until they did, what else even is there to do?? Just sit there and act like it’s normal? How??
Many people are terrified of being uncomfortable and confrontation
Certain members of my family would come after me for “causing trouble” if I called someone out like that. They’d be like “you should really deal with that sort of thing privately. Like yes he was in the wrong but you could’ve handled that better.” Luckily, the rest of my family would then go after those certain family members for saying that
Point is, a lot of people were raised with tbe mentality that they need to preserve the family dignity and image and calling out someone for doing something objectively wrong is worse bc it calls even more attention to it. Getting out of that mentality is difficult. Still fucked up tho
Edit for clarity
What family dignity is there when you’re openly cheating on your partner though??
It seem backwards right? But my mothers side is like this. its a different line of thinking.
They were mad when I told on my stepfather for molesting my sister. Like, both familes were mad at me for getting my sister out of a really dangerous sistuation. He might have killed her had I not spoken up. It was bad bad. And my whole ass family responded by not trusting me anymore, and treating me even more like shit. Why?
Because at least on my mothers side, they had been hiding my grandfathers transgressions which included raping his daughters decades prior. Took me a decade to work it out. Thats why they didnt trust me. I expose secrets that harm people, secrets they didnt want revealed about the family, and heaven forbid you protect your children, the neighbors might gossip. Its a paralell to a pig with lipstick on. But as long as everyone only sees the lipstick, they can go on being pigs. They believe the lie, because the lie is outwardly appearing as truth.
and everyone goes along with the lie that things are “normal and fine” until a truth teller comes. then they hate you for disturbing thier truth (lie).
That’s so sad, I’m glad kid/teen you was able to see through the family norms for your sister. Big ups.
Shame monogamists who shame open relationships
Not all ppl in an open relationship agree on what it is though. Ethical non-monogamy and cheating treat ppl very differently and I reserve my right to shame accordingly.
Who the hell is bringing their DL mistress to a family barbecue? If she’s there, there is no stinking way his wife doesn’t know about it.
If the wife doesn’t approve of it then yeah, he’s pressing the self destruct button on his marriage and bringing drama into a space it doesn’t belong, but I think it’s way more likely she knows what’s up and is cool with it.
We can extend this out. “If it doesn’t involve you, it doesn’t require your approval.”
Both is good. If you’re poly, you can say that. By bringing a different date from your spouse, you are essentially outing yourself as poly already, you should expect questions if the group you’re doing this with doesn’t know, especially if it’s family you’re close to (I’m assuming they are at least in steady contact, given that they’re having family parties).
I can’t really imagine one of my siblings bringing someone other than their spouse to a family party, but I’d have some questions for sure. I also love and trust my siblings, so if they told me their relationship was open, I’d believe them and fully accept their polyamory. I’d probably be confused that they wanted to come out like that, but I wouldn’t have an issue with it. Once enough time had passed for them to be secure that I really accepted them, I’d probably ask why, but I wouldn’t be mad no matter what they said, even if they didn’t want to explain it.
If they were cheating on their spouses, I would not accept that, unless they were in a long term abusive situation and trying to escape. Otherwise, I would leave if it weren’t my house and ask them to leave if it were.
“You just want an open relationship so you have an excuse to cheat!”
- person who doesn’t think about things or understand them
It’s only cheating if it’s not a part of the plan, whether it’s a relationship or anything else.
In go fish, lying about what you have in your hand is cheating. In a closed book exam, using your notes is. Nobody says that people want to play a bluffing game or take an open-book exam because they want to cheat. At most, people will say that someone wants those things because they will perform better under those circumstances, which, while not phrased well, is also true of poly people in monogamous relationships (and very much vice versa- especially for monogamous people who can only conceive of polyamory as cheating), no? It’s not a choice to be polyamorous, and people who are won’t be as fulfilled by a monogamous relationship.
That doesn’t mean they’ll cheat on a monogamous partner, because that is a choice (and frankly, I suspect poly people are less likely to cheat than monogamous people because of the emotional work they’ve already done to realize that they’re poly- I only know one poly person who is a serial cheater, and that’s because he refuses to do any of the required emotional labor to make enm work, so he does just continually get into “monogamous” relationships; whereas I know many monogamous people who are currently or were previously serial cheaters).
Additionally, just as looking at your opponent’s cards or your classmate’s answers are still cheating in bluffing games and open book tests, dating or romantically/sexually interacting with someone outside of what is agreed upon in a poly relationship is still cheating. Poly people don’t have an excuse to cheat at all, and in fact have a greater responsibility not to, given the larger number of people whose health depends on their transparency.
