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I’m just a random outsider and this is besides the topic I guess - but what’s with this focus on voting only I keep seeing? You need to affect the candidates so you don’t have to choose between evils in the voting booth. Or is it impossible and USAs system so incurably busted already that only luiging all the people in power would work? But why argue only about voting in either case
The second one
Those discussions are happening in some places, but there doesn’t seem to be as much here. There are people going for lower state positions, attempts and petitions for getting ranked choice voting, and people trying to challenge from the left in Dem primaries. Which all does have to do with voting, but has the potential to pull Dems more left. People do reach out to their reps, but between money and team sports I’m not sure how effective that is.
The current system and environment is very much built to allow two parties to keep fighting while ignoring third parties, and getting out of that within the confines of the system is a slow process. Slow processes also suffer from people’s impatience, often not changing things fast enough and losing support.
Thanks for the explanation, that makes a lot more sense. I guess the two sides fighting -discourse just tends to dominate platforms like these online, which doesn’t exactly make people more patient either… Hopefully these aggressive online vibes don’t discourage too many people from taking part on the lower levels, since that really is the only real way to fix things (instead of fully breaking them)
Except for Zohran. 🤟😎
I had assumed he would be another smooth-talking closet conservative like Obama, but nope. So far he’s doing as much good as could reasonably be expected, which is a nice change of pace for someone aligned as a Democrat.
Idk, man. He’s very early into his administration and he already caved on keeping Jessica Tisch at NYPD.
The guy seems to have his heart in the right place. And he’s definitely got the wind at his back. But we have a long way to go until the book is written on Zohran’s legacy. He has plenty of opportunities to disappoint.
He never ran on replacing Tisch. He planned to sideline NYPD by expanding social worker sector. Might as well be disappointed that he didn’t implement Shakira law.
Every new mayor picks their own police commissioner.
Keeping Adams’s billionaire scion at the head of the agency full of people who hate you the most is a dangerous play
Yes, I know he can replace her. I also would like it more if he had the balls to do it. But saying he caved to the NYPD is delusional.
But saying he caved to the NYPD is delusional.
Maybe “caved” is the wrong word. But he’s been very non-confrontational. Maybe that’s a strategy. Maybe that’s just a fight he doesn’t think he can win. Maybe he’s legitimately intimidated by the NYPD after how they roughed up de Blasio’s daughter. Idk.
But keeping Tisch around when he could have appointed his own Chief, especially after the scandals Tisch has covered up, is a concession to the NYPD that plenty of people consider a mistake.
I completely agree with you on that.
GOP has very successfully delivered on their goal of a corporate oligarchy with no human rights for the working class.
They left out for whom they fail to deliver (the working class). I would also add in that Dems and DSA-Dems can be interchanged in this meme. There isn’t a socialist program in the world that can be delivered through the mechanism of a capitalist party and capitalist electoral politics.
Calling on all my DSA comrades to fight in the org to break with the dems…now. A clean break. The working class needs to be led by a party on a class independent basis.
I’d say they’re delivering the reich pretty damn hard lol
3/4 of heritage foundation’s project 2025 has been delivered. Both parties continue to deliver for Israel. Could it be that it’s two wings of the same bird? I’m about to get personally attacked I bet
Then cap the money supply increases already, thats the best part of project 2025.
what?
the GOP delivers every time, Republicans just never bother actually reading what they are voting for
project 2025 made it pretty clear
dems lie constantly and spend 80% of their time middle grounding it or fixing broken shit from the last repub but how anyone can look at Trump currently and think Biden was the same is lmao
Not just Biden, the entire party. They had no issues with trump tripling ICE budget. Once they get back into power they will do very little to roll back anything Trump’s done
doing nothing or literally being a ham sammich is still miles better than the last 5 regressive repubs we’ve had
Man I like the palm but those darn fingers keep pinching me.
The problem is that doing nothing causes the electorate to vote in fascists.
I think the argument I often see between Dems and those further to the left is so difficult because both things are simultaneously true.
- If people voted in the Dems it would keep the republicans out of power.
- The Dems failure to deliver causes people to not vote for them.
I think this is where my frustration lies with the party. The job of the party is to win elections and if they can’t articulate and then deliver on policies that cause people to vote for them, they aren’t doing their job. And people can be angry at those that don’t vote for the democrats because it gives the republicans power, but anger in one hand and not much else in the other isn’t going to make those people vote.
So I think the cycle in the meme is largely correct, except I’d probably replace “vibes” with “the consequences of the republicans awful governing finally fuck things up enough that voters kick them out and the Dems are the only other game in town”
If the Dems want to stop being the ticket of last resort after a failed pandemic response leaves a mountain of corpses and a broken society in its wake or literal world war 3 happens, they need to get in power and then use that power to make people’s lives better. Not just a little better around the edges, not just “oh you can stay on your parents insurance until you are 25, still participating in a fundamentally broken system but you get a slightly longer grace period,” not with benefits that phase in over a decade and can be undone by an opposition party before they take effect.
I don’t hold out much hope though, because the Democratic Party has shown me that when push comes to shove their donors win. And their donors make a lot of money from the systems being broken. Hard to cut out the insurance companies from healthcare when they are cutting you big fat election checks. Curtailing predatory loans would be easier if the fees they extract from the working poor didnt in part end up in politicians pockets.
Both parties are owned by the donor class. The republicans figured out they could say they are pro business and they could lie and say they are pro worker, their voters aren’t carefully double checking. The democrats try to do the same thing with a neoliberal twist, they want to keep business in check but are for common sense public private partnerships, proud capitalists who believe in the power of the free market with regulations. It sounds all well and good but the donors would rather not have regulations and those public private partnerships would be a lot more appealing if the donors made a bigger profit and they’ll have even more to donate next election cycle.
The grift grinds on and the democratic base gets outraged that “those stupid voters let the republicans have power again” but if the Dems aren’t doing anything to improve their lives, why do we expect those mercurial voters that swing around untethered with some vague sense that “this is all fucked up” would stick around. It is all fucked up, so many things in this nation are a fucking scam so some small handful of wealthy fucks can have just a little bit more. Sure their idea of “let the republicans have a turn” isnt going to make things better and in many ways will make things worse, but shits fucked up, Dems allow the shit to stay fucked up, those people are just reacting to the fact that things aren’t getting better.
the job of the democrats is to do nothing and collect paychecks, pesky progressives keep getting in their way
republicans have been a lost cause since ragan arguably maybe nixon
The problem is in the normalization of the policies the last Republican left, paving the way for Republicans to expand on those terrible policies once back in charge
overton window moves ever to the right :(
Not anymore, in the USA. It’s fallen off the edge and shattered.
I disagree. The republicans do win on every hate filled thing they want to do and encourage. Actually running a country…did the ever even have a plan other than concepts?
Both sides argument does not apply this round. This is different.
Yeah, republicans actually deliver the reprehensible shit they run on.
“VP Harris, what decisions would you make differently looking back?”
“Absolutely none!”
This is the exact vibe the democrats are bringing as far as I can tell. Nominate 87 year olds everywhere you can, engineer passing votes in favor of ICE and war (hi Chuck Schumer), absolutely zero actual goals beyond shouting No Kings…
The Democratic party is paid to like exactly what is happening even as they run against it.
“The Lesser Fascist Party is better than the Greater Fascist Party”
doesn’t roll off the tongue or fit well on a bumper sticker, but Dem consultants keep telling me its the best chance to win in 2026.
They apply in the sense that the Dems do not present any compelling opposition to the Repubs. Capitalism is in crisis, and you have on the one side, fascists, and on the other side neoliberals. As far as the neoliberals are concerned, there is no crisis. The fascists at least admit there are problems (they have all the wrong answers, obviously), but what solutions can neoliberals offer if they won’t even admit to the problems?
The fascists at least admit there are problems
When they’re out of power. Then they get into power and they sound just like the fucking neoliberals, plus or minus some white nationalist spin.
And the neoliberals are happy to admit problems exist, but only so long as we concede the solution to the problem is more neoliberal Technocrats in charge. And if you don’t agree, then you’re a fascist, too!
Take a look at the Starmer government in the UK right now, and what we’re witnessing is Trumpian fascism and British neoliberalism jerking one another off.
Capitalism is in crisis
It is the crisis. So much of our modern nightmarish policies are third and forth order consequences of the Profit Motive. Everything from our ecological decimation to our brutalization of migrant workers to our paranoid surveillance state traces its roots back to the need to extract an ever growing investment return from assets with diminishing yield.
I mostly agree with you here, except the fascists in power double down on the rhetoric and really seem to enjoy the carnage that neolibs wring their hands over. I also agree that capitalism is the crisis, except there’s a crisis within a crisis now that empire is exhausting itself, and capital hollows out the core, which had previously benefited somewhat (aside from the ‘internal colonies’).
Yes, they are certainly guilty of sticking their collective heads in the sand. Most but not all of them.
i don’t know, republicans goal seems to be to prove that large government can’t work, by sabotaging it at every turn, and looting tax payer money by the trillions. so yes the republicans consistently deliver. and honestly the democrats have the same want, they just need to pretend to not want that, so they also deliver, slowly
Yep, should say Republicans deliver. Democrats win in backlash.
Meet the new boss Same as the old Boss
- Dems win
- Dems control nothing else, blocked at every turn
- Dems fail to reverse some of the damage
- voters abandon them as imperfect, choosing worst-case option
- GoP damages things further to help their rich friends
FTFY
Dems blocked by their own rotating villains in order to protect the status quo
FTFY
Dems control nothing else, blocked at every turn
Except… We’ve had periods where this is absolutely not true. Cycle still holds.
Stop finger wagging at the people voting and maybe address the real problem here.
In the past they have had a majority with context that some of the Democrats are only with the party because 90% of the Republican platform is malicious intent.
And in brief periods when it’s not true, they do something that benefits millions of people and then gets dismantled over next years by the next admin. Meanwhile everyone fails to see the difference between “doing some small good” and “doing a lot of bad” and elect more evil people because the small good was too small
Republicans don’t have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, and they’ve still been able to implement most of their agenda. They show a willingness to creatively use executive action and authority in ways no Democrat would ever dream of. Republicans ask, “what are the absolute limits of what I can accomplish with the authority I have now?” Democrats say, “well, we don’t have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, so I guess there’s no point in trying anything.”
Where was Biden threatening to revoke school funding for schools that don’t teach comprehensive sex ed?
Why didn’t Biden stop the flow of weapons and funding to Israel to fight a genocide?
Why didn’t Biden reinstate Obama’s Iran deal?
Why didn’t Biden use rescission like Trump, and outright refuse to fund departments that were doing more harm than good?
Why didn’t Biden let private groups set up abortion clinics on military bases in red states that ban abortion?
Why didn’t Biden threaten to withhold funding from states that seek to restrict trans healthcare and other rights?
When it was clear that Trump was going to engage in a mass campaign of race-based immigrant expulsion and deny millions of immigrants their due process, why didn’t Biden rapidly move cases through the system, giving millions of immigrants a fast track to citizenship?
Why didn’t Biden use emergency authority to fight climate change? Why did he not use defense production laws to speed up the construction and deployment of renewables, as an act of protecting national security?
And on and on. Trump is moving mountains, using only the authority just the president has. He’s not waiting for Congress, as he knows he doesn’t have the votes to overcome a filibuster. Instead he finds every creative loophole he can to advance his agenda. None of these things would require Congress.
Democrats whine about the authority they don’t have. They never try to use the authority they do have. The voters see this and rightfully ask, “wait, why should we give you more power, you’re clearly incompetent and not using the power you have right now.”
I get your point, but the answer for most of your questions is that the supreme court would fast track everything and shut him down, democrats in congress would backstab each other and biden in an effort to show that they were taking the high ground, and all of the media would spew unending “biden is violating the constitution!” diatribes. Maybe he still should have done all of it, but…
Oh, wait, there was one question that wouldn’t have been covered there: the israwel one. Biden wants to lick israwel’s groin just as much as any republican.
Two wings same fascist bird. Both parties are owned by Israel. We need a revolution
“Democrats arent respsonsible for their failures”
The party can only be failed, never fail is a line so many on lemmy love to use. Especially when shown how little the dems care
It’s always someone else’s fault
Yup. Like, look, i grew up in “the earth is 6,000 years old, gay people go to hell, and science is a liberal conspiracy to serve satan” christianity that is a core of the republican party. I despise them as much as the next guy. But for fucks sake, Dems make it very hard to support them.
They are helping rich friends of the oligarchy, which is bipartisan
Now put me on a plane so I can put 'em in a hearse!
Exactly what I heard next too.
Bitches love cannons.
and how many have the presence of mind to vote for independent state governor candidates?
americans are either republican or democrat voters, it’s more important than their own name
the two-party system is there to stay
Ok so the theory goes that the GOP is secretly occupied by the most vicious Dems, the Dems control both parties.
During the civil war, it was the northern Republicans who wanted to abolish slavery and adopt the most leftist posture. The democrats in the south seceded.
After losing the civil war, the Dems vowed to wage a secret forever war in the congress. They did this by infiltrating the GOP and gradually steering it towards rabid facism which, by comparison, made the Dems look left wing. The Dems could then push and pull the center wherever fit their aims and narrative. They could enact and enforce the most racist and classist policies by proxy of the GOP, and then ‘fail’ to prevent them as the Dems.
By dominating positions of power within both parties, they could gatekeep access to both. Shuttle the hateful extremists to the GOP, funnel the ineffective, flaccid liberals to the Dems. That’s why the Dems have been the most vocal opponents of effective leftists.
The GOP needs an aggressive coup to return it to its leftist socialist roots, a party who isn’t afraid to meet violence with violence again to counter the democrats’ subterfuge and drag the nation back towards its liberal, egalitarian and class-concious destiny.
Source?
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Hmm, I wonder what would be more effective in driving voter turnout: Banishing certain memes on an online space with about 45,000 monthly active users, or Democrats making substantive changes to demonstrate that this cycle won’t simply repeat yet again?
I’ve read the “1/3 couldn’t be bothered” sentence about 10 times last week, from different posters. So, no change coming I guess, just vote “not Trump”?
just vote “not Trump”
It’s been their strategy since Hilary in 2016 even when shown Bernie would beat Trump while she’d lose easily to Trump. Working 1/3 times honestly about the average dnc goes for
Hmm, I wonder what would be more effective in driving voter turnout: Banishing certain memes on an online space with about 45,000 monthly active users, or Democrats making substantive changes to demonstrate that this cycle won’t simply repeat yet again?
So you want to drive home the idea that nothing changes, and that is how you want to contribute to the voter suppression campaign.
I predict that you will lean even harder into your efforts.
There is nothing more urgent than toppling the Trump regime. But go on, keep up the chatter that tends to reduce voter turnout.
No, I don’t want to drive home the idea that nothing changes, I want to change things, while you want to maintain the material conditions that led to the rise of this regime.
Best of luck driving voter turnout with that hogwash.
No, I don’t want to drive home the idea that nothing changes, I want to change things, while you want to maintain the material conditions that led to the rise of this regime.
Best of luck driving voter turnout with that hogwash.
Absolutely nothing is more urgent than ending the Trump regime.
Absolutely all of your rhetoric will keep, and can be cranked out after the elections are over.
Any mooing that you care to offer in terms of what you think should be done, does not require voter suppression rhetoric.
It really is that simple. Behave in a manner that helps Trump, or behave in a manner that helps dump Trump.
If nothing is more urgent, and toppling the regime requires voter turnout, then it would stand to reason that perhaps encouraging voter turnout is key? That seems self-evident to me. And the Democrats (and you) ain’t gonna get it done by offering the same ol’ same ol’ that failed to generate turnout for Harris.
On the other hand, people could barely wait to vote for Mamdani.
Maybe there’s a lesson there.
lol at quoting the entire comment of what you’re replying to multiple times. I feel like you’re just making their point more valid by saying it for them.
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Getting rid of trump will change absolutely nothing. Liberals that talk like this act like changing a cog in the machine will change how the machine operates. Trump is a byproduct of 50 years of neoliberal politics , they need to be protesting the system that enables someone like Trump to rise, otherwise, the version you get of him next time will be 10 times worse than this one. Which is what leftist told liberals back in 2016 would happen if you allowed Trump to win his first term, And again in 2020 when we warned that the second term of trump would be 10 times worse than his first when you nominated a neoliberal old white guy that nobody wanted
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Would that be the concentration camps where the Biden administration kept putting kids in cages you’re talking about?
Or the concentration camps where the Obama and Biden administrations tortured innocent civilians from the middle east?
Or the concentration camps where more Democratic administrations than I care to name have condemned millions of mostly nonwhite Americans to forced labor in a constitutional exemption on slavery?
Those things you call concentration camps are detention centers which Democrats LOVED building
https://www.jezebel.com/nancy-pelosi-says-funding-migrant-detention-without-new-1835923811
https://www.axios.com/2025/01/15/ice-detention-expansion-biden-trump-deportation
Absolutely nothing is more urgent than ending the Trump regime.
And this proves you’re blue MAGA. It’s all just a sports game to you.
You want Trump out just for the sake of having Trump out. There’s no plan beyond that. There’s no accountability beyond that. It’s all just “get their guy out and my guy in.” Your goal isn’t to exact certain policy goals, as otherwise that would be your number one priority. Personally, if Trump pulled a reverse Fetterman tomorrow, had a stroke, and suddenly became progressive, I wouldn’t want him out of office. Getting him out is a means to an end, not an end in itself.
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You have no actual plans or rebuttals aside from “orange man bad”. You shame those who criticize the outcomes (or lack thereof) of liberals who wield power from this insanity. Trump alone is not fascism and his death or removal from office alone will not fix the conditions that allowed him and his sick depraved sycophants from getting into power in the first place.
I expect nothing of value back as a response. I hope you screech more about the concentration camps while simultaneously sucking on the boots of liberals who helped quietly build them. I hope you tell me to vote for more fettermans and sinemas who gleefully kneecap our progress while pointing at the over-the-top style of the GOP they act as a ratchet for. I hope you tell me to be thankful the boiling pot of water will only go up 1 degree instead of 5, and that making it go down in temperature is wishful thinking. I need to know that the “sane” folks like you have it all figured out and that’s why my entire life has been American decline and end-stage capitalist hell. Just keep doing what we’ve been doing and it will be fine.
I’m trans, have trans friends, have immigrant friends, and date an immigrant trans woman I am desperately trying to protect. I hope that you, like so many liberals before you, tell me to “enjoy the camps”. Show me those true colors.
And they wonder why their comment was removed
Democrats doing nothing to improve the material conditions of the working class is what keeps voters away. They never offer something to vote for, only against. If they offer no reason to support them they don’t deserve support
Democrats doing nothing to improve the material conditions of the working class is what keeps voters away. They never offer something to vote for, only against. If they offer no reason to support them they don’t deserve support
Cool.
We’ll just go ahead and mark you down as being in favor of keeping Trump in power.
Because that is absolutely what following your guidance would do.
Nice work champ.
You’re shooting the messenger here.
You’re shooting the messenger here.
You’re not single-minded enough for the situation at hand, which requires the removal of Trump from office.
Zero rhetoric equivocating the parties should be tolerated.
If there’s room for improvement on the Democrats side, find a way to say so without invoking Or Nothing Will Ever Change Language.
Concentration Camps.
Grasp the fucking urgency, and shift your messaging to match it.
Do you think history is a series of discrete events with no relationship to what has come before?
It’s liberals that keep people like Trump in power, it’s liberals that put people like Trump into power by never addressing those material conditions. Democrats got the black vote in the '60s because they improved the material conditions of the black community. Now they’ve done nothing but abandoned them along with everyone else from the non-white working class
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Democrats have enabled that regime and oppose him in rhetoric only
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I’m absolutely disappointed at this moderator decision, and I’m relieved to at least have seen the comment before it was censored.
Advocating for liberalism, lesser evil, or voting for Democrats/Republicans/status quo is not welcome here
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What was it?
It was lesser evil gotta vote for the blue fascist bullshit
Given the situation, what would you choose then?
The exact same decision I’ve made for decades, the best socialist candidate on a ticket.
