• TheOakTree@lemm.ee
    12·
    6 days ago

    GUI is a generic swiss army knife. It’s easy to introduce to someone, and it has a whole array of tools ready for use. However, each of those tools is only half-decent at its job at best, and all of the tools are unwieldy. The manual is included, but it mostly tells you how to do things that are pretty obvious.

    CLI is a toolbox full of quality tools and gadgets. Most people who open the box for the first time don’t even know which tools they’re looking for. In addition, each tool has a set of instructions that must be followed to a T. Those who know how to use the tools can get things done super quickly, but those who don’t know will inevitably cause some problems. Oh, but the high-detail manuals for all the tools are in the side compartment of the toolbox too.

  • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
    101·
    6 days ago

    People can do whatever they like, and heck I find CLI intimidating sometimes, but I’m always learning something new a little bit at a time.

    I’m tired of seeing it in every field of interest that has any kind of payoff, whether art or FOSS.

    “I’m [(almost always) a guy] who (maybe has kids and) has a job. I stopped learning anything after I got my job-paper / degree / highschool diploma. I shouldn’t have to learn anything anymore. I am happy to shell out disposable sad-salary-man money (and maybe my soul idk) to any mega-corp that offers me a “create desired outcome button” without me having to think too much. It’s [current year]! I shouldn’t have to think anymore! Therefore Linux is super behind and only for nerds and I desire its benefits so much that I leave this complaint anywhere these folks gather so they know what I deserve.”

    Agh. I gotta go before this rant gets too long lol

  • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
    151·
    7 days ago

    Did a process last week that took me 13 steps in the command line that took about an hour. If I’d have done it manually it would have taken days. After I worked out how to do it I trimed it down to 6 steps and sent it to my coworker that also needs that information. His eyes glazed over on step two of explaining it to him and he’s just going to keep doing it his way…

  • udc@lemmy.worldEnglish
    11·
    7 days ago

    Didn’t even know there were such a thing as evangelists for Windows

  • thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world
    6·
    6 days ago

    Tbh the terminal is super convenient. No random UI placement. Most things follow one of several conventions so less to get used to. It’s easy to output the results of one command into another making automation obvious, no possibility for ads. It’s pretty sweet

  • Fluffy Kitty Cat@slrpnk.netEnglish
    4·
    6 days ago

    I feel like a lot more people be comfortable using the terminal if the text displayed when it was first opened gave you a list of commands to try. There is a very steep initial learning curve immediately which discourages experimentation, and I think that with a little bit of effort you could get a lot of people over that hump and then they could enjoy terminal Bliss.

  • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
    149·
    7 days ago

    My guy, it’s because you’re the vegans of tech.

    Nobody cares. It doesn’t need to be your personality.

  • beastlykings@sh.itjust.works
    3·
    6 days ago

    Just the other day, I was trying to run a CLI program, one I won’t name.

    I’m trying out a new immutable distro, and couldn’t install it, so I said hey these new flatpaks are supposed to be all a guy could ever need.

    So I downloaded an app that uses this unnamed CLI program as its core. It was a GUI app. And while it worked just fine, I also had very little control over what exactly was gonna happen and how it would happen. I wanted to do some specific things I knew the core program could do, but there was no way to do it.

    Eventually I dug deeper and realized I’m an idiot and the CLI program can run without installing it or any dependencies, so it was fine to use natively. I was able to accomplish my task quickly and efficiently after that, happy as a clam.

    CLI and GUI both have their place. I prefer GUI most the time, honestly. But having some CLI chops can be extremely useful at times.

  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
    42·
    6 days ago

    It’s wild that Linux stans are such masochists that they believe they can convert people to loving abuse, instead of just making the interface better to attract users.

  • livingcoder@programming.dev
    2·
    6 days ago

    I’ve found that one of the best things to do when making a library for something that is going to have a web interface is to first have it work in the terminal. You can much more quickly play around with the design and fix issues there instead of having to work with a more complex web interface.

    You just create a simple menu system, like input("1: Feature A\n2: Feature B\n>") and just start trying out all of the different scenarios and workflows.

  • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    33·
    7 days ago

    meanwhile windows users complacent in learning complex muscle memory in order to navigate only the most autistic UI design ever created (it was windows)

    • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
      89·
      8 days ago

      The commands: ls cp mv…

      Meanwhile you get Windows people who memorize things like Get-AllUsersHereNowExtraLongJohn

        • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          221·
          8 days ago

          Versus:

          man $commamd

          PowerShell might be okay script syntax for people with uncorrected sight issues and the elderly who’s heart might not handle bash without set -e but to be useful as a CLI shell prompt that is your primary way of interacting with the computer like it can be on Linux it needs to be so so so much shorter. I’ll be dead by the time I type out half the shit it’d be like 4 key presses total on Linux.

          And that’s before you get to the issues of it being a whole object oriented and typed programming language with .NET whereas shell is nice universal text everywhere that can be piped around however you want.

          There are even those absolute mad lads who unironically use PowerShell on Linux.

          Learning the absolute basics of how to use tmux, vim, sed, awk and grep and pipes and redirects and the basics of handling stdin and stdout genuinely made me feel like all my life I was an NPC in the matrix and now I’m Neo just because passing around bits of text is so powerful when everything works on that basis.

          • TwilightKiddy@programming.devEnglish
            15·
            8 days ago

            Yea, when I switched to Linux, at first I installed PowerShell to get something familiar, but quickly realized that contrary to Windows, terminal on Linux is actually usable on it’s own out of the box.

          • exu@feditown.comEnglish
            4·
            8 days ago

            PowerShell doesn’t stop on errors either by default. And of course a significant number of tools you need aren’t available in PowerShell, only cover partial functionality or are an exe you need to call so even if it did stop on error, doesn’t work for those tools by default.

            • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              5·
              8 days ago

              It is still a shock to me that some genius aliased curl to Invoke-WebRequest and that curl.exe is what you actually want.

          • AdamBomb@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
            41·
            7 days ago

            Re: length of commands, PS commands are longer, but they also have tab completion so realistically you never type the whole thing, only enough to be unambiguous and press tab. I’ll grant it’s still longer than the equivalent bash, but not by as much as it appears.

          • calcopiritus@lemmy.world
            31·
            8 days ago

            I’m one of those that use PowerShell on linux.

            You can use tmux, vim, sed, awk or whatever binary you want from PowerShell. Those are binaries, not shell commands.

            You can use pipes, redirects, stdin and stdout in PowerShell too.

            I personally don’t regularly use any object oriented features. But whenever I search how to do something that I don’t know what to do, a clear object-oriented result is much easier to understand than a random string of characters for awk and sed.

            • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              3·
              8 days ago

              Mixing the two philosophies of coreutils and unix bins and whatever is happening in PowerShell seems even more unholy to me than the phrase “object oriented result”, but different strokes.

              I gave up on PowerShell on Windows as a plausible alternative to Bash on Linux the minute I realized there’s no real equivalent tocat, there’s type or if you hate yourself - Get-Content which is aliased as cat but doesn’t really work the same way.

              If I can’t even very basically list a file irregardless of what’s in it, it’s just dead out of the gate.

              On Linux, I once sent myself an MP3 from my server to my laptop with cat song.mp3 | base64 -w0 > /dev/tcp/10.10.10.2/9999 because I cba to send ssh keys.

              I’ll give modern windows a few points - the new terminal emulator application is sweet, and having ssh makes it easy to login to remotely.

              PowerShell is a strange programming language that makes me wish I was just writing C#.

              Bash is a shell language. At its heart it’s a CLI, emphasis on the I, it’s the primary way of interacting with a computer, not a way to write programs. Even awk is arguably better suited.

              That’s why it neither needs to be verbose nor readable for complete beginners, you memorize it the same way you memorize where buttons are on a keyboard or what items you can expect in a right click context menu on Windows.

              Most bash scripts people write are far too complex for it and could stand a rewrite in perl or python or heck, what I think actually works amazing as a “scripting language” - C.

      • Matriks404@lemmy.world
        2·
        8 days ago

        In PowerShell most common cmdlets for basic operations have aliases by default. And funnily enough you can use both Windows (cmd.exe) and Unix shell names for these. (copy vs cp, del vs rm, etc.)

        AFAIK The cmdlets that you use only by Verb-Noun convention are mostly used in scripts, or in some administration tasks.

        I also think that some poeple miss the point of PowerShell, as it’s not supposed to be worked with like with Unix shells, since it’s more object-oriented than string-oriented.

    • SinkingLotus@lemmy.worldEnglish
      21·
      8 days ago

      I’m the type to spend 10 minutes going through my previous commands, rather than 5 seconds typing it.

    • dgdft@lemmy.worldEnglish
      8·
      8 days ago

      See also: atuin - a shell history tool that records your shell history to sqlite.

      Seamless sync across shell sessions & machines, E2EE + trivially self-hostable sync server, compatible with all major shells, interactive search, etc.

      • Badabinski@kbin.earth
        16·
        8 days ago

        I genuinely use vim inside of termux on a daily basis. I dunno if I’m sick in the head or what, but I kinda like vim on my phone.

        • renzev@lemmy.worldOP
          8·
          8 days ago

          Yeah I was gonna say that while it sounds completely unusable, it’s surprisingly not too bad actually. Some of the more complex shortcuts can get pretty tedious, but nothing that a good config can’t solve.

          I remember once my friend’s laptop died, and while it was in RMA he was using his phone with an external keyboard and mouse to develop a webapp lol. Just goes to show that any computing device that can run a web browser and VIM covers 90% of your daily software needs haha.

        • SatyrSack@feddit.orgEnglish
          1·
          8 days ago

          What keyboard do you use? Do you need something like Unexpected Keyboard, or are you still able to be productive in vim with a more “standard” Android keyboard?

    • skulblaka@sh.itjust.works
      6·
      8 days ago

      Personally I just run gotop at startup and keep it on my second monitor. I know it’s a small waste of resources but I enjoy watching the blinkenlights.