• Death_Equity@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    I am once again reminding the world that the ancient Romans warned not to buy slaves from asbestos mines because of the health issues they had.

    We have known for a very long time that asbestos was bad and we keep using it to this day.

    At least we aren’t using it to make easy clean tablecloths and napkins that only need to be thrown in a fire to clean…

      • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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        3 days ago

        Yeah, it’s a crystal structure and it’s really a shame that it causes so many health issues because it’s kind of an amazing material otherwise. It’s lightweight and strong enough to make bricks with but you can also make flexible fabric out of it, and it can hold up to really impressive amounts of heat. As the poster above said, it is still in use in some industrial applications because in some situations there is no effective alternative.

        Of course the problem is that if you damage an asbestos brick or bend an asbestos fabric you get lots of tiny little asbestos fibers that come loose. My understanding is that the fibers are so small that they pierce cell walls and damage DNA strands, hence the cancer.

        • protist@mander.xyz
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          3 days ago

          They’re not small enough to directly damage DNA, they get trapped in your tissues and are impossible for your body to remove, and they cause inflammation and scarring. The long term inflammation and scarring is what increases cancer susceptibility

          • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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            3 days ago

            Here we go, found it in the Health Impacts article:

            There is experimental evidence that very slim fibers (<60 nm, <0.06 μm in breadth) tangle destructively with chromosomes (being of comparable size). This is likely to cause the sort of mitosis disruption expected in cancer.

            And here in MECHANISMS OF ASBESTOS-INDUCED CARCINOGENESIS

            It is somewhat more difficult to understand the “chromosome tangling hypothesis.” We recently found that asbestos fibers including crocidolite are actively taken up by several different kinds of cultured cells. Furthermore, those fibers enter both the cytoplasm and the nucleus. In this situation, asbestos fibers may tangle with chromosomes when cells divide. Whether there is a specificity of tangling for any chromosomal region is the next question to be addressed.

            So not quite down to the DNA level, but basically chromosomes can get wrapped around asbestos fibers during cell division.

      • protist@mander.xyz
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        3 days ago

        And asbestos is just one form of silica. Silica dust from many sources can cause serious lung problems, e.g. breathing in the dust from cutting granite countertops (which contain silica as quartz) or volcanic dust.

        • turtlesareneat@discuss.online
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          3 days ago

          Heck just concrete dust will accumulate and cause chronic health issues. Something I hate knowing when I drive by a construction site and see a bunch of guys cutting foundations with saws, huge plumes of concrete dust, they’re just breathing it unfiltered. But no one is playing up the health risks to these folks, and they aren’t thinking about how bad it will be at 60 to be on oxygen or dead.

          • PartyAt15thAndSummit@lemmy.zip
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            3 days ago

            Wood dust also does this. In fact, any little soluble, hard particles of a certain shape and size can get stuck in your lungs and do damage there. They act in a biophysical and not in a biochemical way. Which is why, in several countries, you’re required to wear PPE when handling such, or any, powders or dusts.

            • turtlesareneat@discuss.online
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              2 days ago

              Yeah this sucked getting back into woodworking, they basically tell you now, if you can smell the sawdust and wood (my favorite part), you’re in danger so get a mask on.

      • AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        And it’s been used pretty much forever… in pottery, in garments… Charlemagne had an asbestos shirt he’d throw in the fire to clean stains off in order to amaze his visitors.

    • vividspecter@aussie.zone
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      3 days ago

      I believe the risks of silicosis from silica were known since ancient times too, although they probably didn’t have any solutions or alternatives for it historically. More recently, there was the Hawk’s Nest tunnel disaster in the US during the 1930s, where around a 100 mostly black workers died as a result of silicosis developed from cutting and blowing up quartz without any sort of protective measures.

      Then in the modern era, there was a ban implemented in Australia of construction using high silica “engineered” stone. You’d think given the known health risks of silica that this could have been predicted, although it’s not as clear cut (heh) as the risks of asbestos, since at least part of the problem was construction workers not using preventative measures such as wet drilling and PPE. But you could see how that goes over when the workers are often vulnerable in some way, and do not feel comfortable saying no to their bosses.

      • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        There’s also a problem where young workers often don’t want to use uncomfortable and time consuming safety equipment. They’re often far more receptive to the union demanding it than the employer or government ime, but it’s similar to how people reacted to face masks during covid.

    • notsure@fedia.io
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      3 days ago

      …have you heard the latest presidential executive order from the U nited S tates?..

      • naeap@sopuli.xyz
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        3 days ago

        Sorry, I’m out of the loop
        Did the orange idiot suggest to bring asbestos back?
        That would play well with Russia, as the current biggest exporter of asbestos and would pretty much fit the picture of the idiots way of doing “business”

        • notsure@fedia.io
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          1 day ago

          …quite so, this is a reversal of a previous EO since we can’t seem to legislate anything…hold while i find a citation
          Current Status of Asbestos Ban in the U.S. Overview of the Ban

          In March 2024, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) finalized a ban on the ongoing uses of chrysotile asbestos, the only type currently used in the U.S. This ban is part of the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) and aims to protect public health by eliminating exposure to this known carcinogen. wikipedia

          https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/06/20/trump-asbestos-biden-epa/

          questions? me, too…

          • naeap@sopuli.xyz
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            1 day ago

            Seems the current producers of chrysotile asbestos are Russia, Kazakhstan, China, and Brazil.
            Or is there are also some mining/production in the USA?

      • protist@mander.xyz
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        3 days ago

        I found this:

        Both the Greeks and the Romans employed asbestos as wicking material for their oil lamps. In fact, the very word “asbestos” comes from a Greek word meaning “inextinguishable.” In a world where lamplight extended work hours, a lamp wick made from chrysotile asbestos would burn almost indefinitely. In addition to lamp wicks, the Greeks and Romans used the long fibers of the serpentine form of asbestos in weaving textiles.

      • Death_Equity@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        I gave an example, fireplace cleaned napkins and tablecloths.

        It was also used in bricks and pottery.

  • ChicoSuave@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    Kent executives patting themselves on the back for making nicotine no longer the worst thing in a cigarette.

  • Anna@lemmy.ml
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    3 days ago

    I mean if you get cancer from asbestos it’s not tobacco’s fault.

  • banazir@lemmy.ml
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    3 days ago

    The open wounds in your lungs help the nicotine absorb! The tobacco company is just making sure you get your money’s worth!

  • Solumbran@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    The real surprise is that it didn’t become the norm, and still legal as long as it has a little warning on the pack, while in the meantime useful medical drugs are banned as “potentially risky”

    • hitmyspot@aussie.zone
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      Useful medical drugs need to prove they are effective before being used. That’s not a bad thing. Smoking is a remnant of historical habits before it’s dangers were known. The crime is more that we allow it to be used and marketed to new customers. New Zealand has the right idea by increasing the legal age annually but that got shot down.

      Allowing drugs to be used without proof would likely lead to more things like smoking causing harm, not less.

      • JadenSmith@sh.itjust.works
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        2 days ago

        There is still an issue, at least here in the UK, of asbestos in older buildings.
        Many of our infrastructures are rather old, and unless they are individually done to remove the asbestos (at a heavy price point), many buildings still contain it.

        Just a couple of years ago I had to change a light fixture, and get someone trained to handle the substance (since it is still in the ceiling between floors).

        • Successful_Try543@feddit.org
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          2 days ago

          Of course it is still in use, but no new products containing asbestos are being produced or allowed to be sold. You still see e.g. Eternit roofing in Germany as well.

      • Anna@lemmy.ml
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        3 days ago

        Aah well I can buy asbestos legally in my country then. Let’s respawn Kent Cigarettes then.

          • Solumbran@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            My point is that cigarettes are stupidly legal, so having asbestos allowed to be put in them despite the knowledge of its health effects doesn’t seem much more absurd.

  • TomMasz@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    It had blue asbestos, which is the form most likely to cause mesothelioma. It “protected” smokers by killing them before heart attacks, strokes, or emphysema could. Mission accomplished.

    • ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Did they mention the fact that filters include chemicals to make them turn brown in the presence of nicotine smoke? The idea is to create the impression that they’re actually capturing lots of noxious goo, when in reality they do virtually nothing as far as negative health effects are concerned.

      • bcgm3@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Yes, they did. This is taken from the transcript of that episode, about 8 minutes in:

        Chuck: They changed the pH on that filter to purposefully turn it brown as you smoke, so you look and you see, man, look at all that brown stuff that’s not getting into my lungs.

        Josh: It fooled me for twenty years. Up until a couple of days ago, I had no idea that that was the case.

        Chuck: Yeah, just one of the dirty tricks that cigarette manufacturers used and still used.

        They also point out how the filter “is doing something” to reduce what makes it into your body, but not much.

        • ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world
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          As far as I understand, there is absolutely no clinical evidence that suggests filters do anything as far as reducing the risks of cancer and other smoking-related diseases is concerned. In fact it’s suggested that it has the opposite effect since it tends to make people smoke more.

          The Cigarette Century is an excellent recent book that also talks about these issues.

      • shalafi@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        What in the conspiracy theory?!

        Take a drag. Blow the smoke through a tissue. Report back.

        Tell me how your lungs felt smoking filterless vs. filtered. Or shall I start?

        • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 days ago

          The claim isn’t that they stop nothing, it’s that they prevent none of the cancer causing stuff.

          You’re not actually preventing any health issues, but you sure feel better about having another drag.

        • KingPorkChop@lemmy.ca
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          Yeah. I don’t get this claim they do next to nothing.

          I smoked for years. Filtered, non filtered, and later “lights”. The only difference with filtered and lights is a row or two of holes punched in the filter so you pull in more air.

          The difference of smoking a filter vs a non filter though is night and day.

  • bigbabybilly@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    I often think about what the 2025 equivalent of this is. What are we doing today that we think is helping, but is actually taking us out?

    • GraniteM@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Social media.

      “Oh my god, grandpa! You were just on that all day?! And you let kids use it??! Didn’t you know it was bad for you?!”

      “Y… Yeah. We kinda knew.”

      • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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        “Our grandparents lied to themselves about the harm of smoking as they called cigarettes ‘coffin nails’, we spent all day on social media telling ourselves it’s fine and that its how we keep in touch as we saw our cousins and childhood friends lose their damn minds.”

        But for real I think the fact that it became difficult to live a social life without social media around the time the dangers became difficult to deny is very reminiscent of what it must have been like for my parents and grandparents as non-smokers in the mid-late 20th century.

    • scytale@piefed.zip
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      3 days ago

      I hate to say it, and I really hope I’m wrong, but sugar substitutes and artificial sweeteners. I myself use them to cut my sugar intake and have resorted to the most naturally occurring option (stevia). I hope there are no long term negative effects once they’ve existed long enough for scientists to study them.

      • The Giant Korean@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        They’ve studied them for quite a while, and they appear to be pretty safe. Most studies that “show” that they cause cancer were done on rats (a breed of which is notorious for developing cancer) and the amounts given to them were ludicrous, something like drinking multiple cases of diet soda in a day. The only possible issue I’ve seen so far is that sucralose affects the microbiome, and we don’t know enough about the microbiome still to know if it’s negative or positive.

        IMHO the reduction in calories and sugar greatly outweigh any potential negative impacts if there are any.

        • Bizzle@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          Seems like you have not considered the #1 reason to stay away from fake sugar, which is of course that it tastes terrible.

          • The Giant Korean@lemmy.world
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            Fair - I know it tastes awful to some people. I personally don’t mind it, and I actually prefer it in a few things like sodas.

            Using non-caloric sweeteners are a “tweak” that can result in some positive health changes - drop a bit of weight, improve A1C a bit, etc. It’s certainly not the only tweak that can used, though (e.g. increasing your daily step count or incorporating more fruits and veggies).

      • lime!@feddit.nu
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        3 days ago

        fortunately sugar substitutes are one of the most studied substances in the world

        • dickalan@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          Yeah, and if you’ve been paying attention, all sorts of awful shit has been coming out of them recently, have you been paying attention or are you just spouting off?

          • lime!@feddit.nu
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            3 days ago

            yeah on sucralose. which i’ve actually never seen in anything.

    • MeatPilot@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Around the late 90’s anyone remember Olestra/Olean Chips?

      Thankfully warning bells went off for me. Avoided my ass leaking.

      I’m scared of something like that happening again.

    • Anti-Antidote@lemmy.zip
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      3 days ago

      Replacing gas powered cars with electric ones because they’re “less polluting”. Sure, they produce no gaseous emissions, but they make up a lot of that difference with increased tire particulates, road wear, and general pollution from the raw materials required. Don’t even get me started on self driving cars.

      What we should really be doing is building and enabling as many viable alternatives to driving as possible. Intercity buses and trains, frequent intracity bus service with wide service areas, bike lanes, deconstructing highways going through city centers, etc. Cars have a place in our society, but we’ve made them the only viable way to get around and it’s killing us.

      • bollybing@lemmynsfw.com
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        They are so much less polluting though. We know that car emissions are causing excess deaths, asthma, dementia, not to mention the obvious contributions to climate change.

        Tyre and brake particles are still an issue, but its far less than if the fuel you’re burning is directly dumping toxic particles into the air.

        • Anti-Antidote@lemmy.zip
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          3 days ago

          They are indeed less polluting, but not nearly as much as just getting around without driving. A comprehensive network of regional/national trains and local transit combined with safe cycling infrastructure and low through traffic areas are so much less polluting that it makes the difference between gas and electric cars look like a rounding error.

          • bollybing@lemmynsfw.com
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            3 days ago

            I completely agree, but in a lot of places you need infrastructure changes to reduce car dependency, and swapping out ICE cars for electric is something positive that an individual can do on their own.

      • Bob Robertson IX @discuss.tchncs.de
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        3 days ago

        increased tire particulates, road wear, and general pollution from the raw materials required.

        Electric vehicle do wear down current tires more, and they do cause somewhat more wear on the roads … but these are issues that can be solved by creating better, more durable tires and roads.

        And the ‘raw materials’ do cause damage to the environment, but much less over the lifetime of the vehicle than a gas engine. And, the majority of the materials needed for the batteries can be recycled, so future vehicles will have less environmental impact.

        I agree that we need a mix of vehicles and I’m most places the mass public transportation options are very lacking, but overall I think if someone needs a car, they should look for an electric one.

        • Anti-Antidote@lemmy.zip
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          I agree, if you’re going to get a car it’s great for folks to get electric cars. My point is that they are not even remotely the silver bullet people think they are, and allowing that thinking to persist is killing us. We need viable alternatives to driving, and we need them 30 years ago.

    • Revan343@lemmy.ca
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      2 days ago

      Asbestos was a miracle substance, like radium; you put it in everything. Talking about activated carbon on the label isn’t going to help sell cigarettes the way talking about asbestos does

  • baldingpudenda@lemmy.world
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    I remember watching an old 50s info film, I can’t find it, where the army had an asbestos burning contest. I can’t remember exactly why they were doing it, but it had to be done and they decided to make it a whole thing. People stood right next to the burning barrels stirring occasionally , faces full of soot and what looked about 50 soldiers sitting around cheering. I’m sure they didn’t make it to 50.

  • the_q@lemmy.zip
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    3 days ago

    Now just imagine the sorts of poisons we’re marketed to ingest, inhale or indulge now that there will be news reports about in the future.