Member when England thought Hitler wasn’t that bad and had “peace in our time?”
Or when the “free world” sat back and let the anarchists lose the Spanish civil war because anarchism was scarier than fascism to them?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Yeah, it would be hilariously ironic if not for the tragedy.
“We can’t try anarchy, because bad people will become warlords! Then they’ll compete and the winner will take full control as a dictator!”
“Uh huh, and what do we call that?”
“Anarchy! That’s why I’m voting for fascism!”
[Facepalm]
I’m actually not a big fan of anarchy, but the idea that it’s worse than Totalitarianism seems pretty silly to me.
It’s doubly hilarious when you realize anarchy isn’t that.
Anarchy isn’t that. It’s just what happens when people try to install it in a geopolitical environment that’s inherently imperialistic. It would be interesting to see what kind of social structures are possible without outside interference, but I don’t expect to see that in my lifetime.
“Anarchy” is a transition state, almost always to something worse. The point of instituting a democracy is to prevent that something worse. Granted, that doesn’t always work, but it’s better than nothing.
That’s not the anarchy they’re talking about. “Anarchy” here refers to the state of society sought by anarchism.
…an’ I wanna pony with wings, an’ I wanna pretty castle, an’ I wanna be a princess, an’ I wanna dress made out of pretty rainbows and sunshine, an’ I wanna…
This is what educated people used to say about democracy before it became widespread.
yeah i call that libertarianism
The ruling capital owners would never let actual citizens gain control over the system. Of course they installed Trump, as in many instances in the past.
“They” were mostly Russia running a massive propaganda campaign through all social media, of course with Trump and the GOP allowing it.
You… you think Trump doesn’t have the support of large swathes of the American rich? Russian propaganda helped of course, but mainstream media amplifying Trump’s rhetoric and suppressing leftist ideas weren’t and aren’t paid off by Russia.
I would say Russia is the catalyst since they have tons of overlapping interests, maybe like 30% of it, but the ruling class are 70+% reason he is president.
I’d swap those. Most of the ruling class didn’t want him in until he won the nomination. They preferred him to taxes on billionaires and that’s about it. Most of them were forced to get on board or get out.
We don’t remember the “get out” ones as much, because, you know, they got out. They’re no longer relevant.
In the very beginning, yes they would’ve preferred someone more predictable, but once they saw his cult power, they absolutely wanted him.
Or when the “free world” sat back and let the anarchists lose the Spanish civil war because anarchism was scarier than fascism to them?
This one is more understandable though. It’s always iffy to meddle in the internal affairs of other countries. Even if the anarchists had won they would be seen as less legitimate if they had outside help. And if they had helped the anarchists and they lost anyway the relations would be way worse.
Even if the anarchists had won they would be seen as less legitimate if they had outside help.
Like liberal democracy in America, getting help from France?
While I do see your point I don’t know if I like that comparison. The world was heck of a lot more connected in the 30’s than the 1700’s.
Nazi Germany helped the Spanish fascists and Franco’s rule even continued after Hitler’s fall. And the big threat after fascism threatened the freedom of the world? The communists that did most of the hard work and dying to defeat fascism.
The crisis of legitimacy would have come from the ruling classes of the world feeling threatened by the change in social order, not because aid was given to a side in an internal conflict.
If your countrymen are trying to kill you and foreigners who support your position help you defeat them, people who complain about who helped get it done are just more supporters of that defeated side trying to play victim and position for their next run for power.
Chamberlain had to buy time to arm Britain. At that point, the Luftwaffe was cutting edge. The RAF had only biplanes.
He played politics, while modernising Britain’s defences. He then fell on his sword, politically, so that Churchill could lead without too much political baggage to deal with.
Britain would have been flattened, without his delaying actions.
Any reputable source for this? This could be one of the most damning photos I’ve seen, depending on veracity and context.
Firstly let me say this. tRUMP is a convicted rapist.
And, in my opinion, that although not priced in court he definitely has raped children. I think that orange thing has raped many children in his lifetime. There’s far too much evidence pointing to him not being a kiddie fiddling paedo.So, got that, he’s definitely a child rapist. Now with that said this picture is supposedly one of him and his daughter that has been slightly doctored with a box. I saw on another thread that there were other pictures taken at the same time, it was something to do with a plane ride for her birthday.
The real icky thing is I also think he used to fiddle with her when she was younger. There’s a video from years ago where she was showing off her family house but when she got to her bedroom her whole demeanour changed then changed back to jovial once she had left the bedroom.
The real damning thing is that by simply putting a black box over a head that people believe that nefarious actions were taking place. And that the obese orange buffoon’s reputation is so bad that a simple box gets the average person to start to question things…
Well, the other reason is that we know he likes girls that look like his daughter.
Sex is one of the few things they have in common, after all.
Listen, can we not jump to conclusions. Just because he said they have sex in common AND there’re suggestive pictures of her on his lap AND that he says he’d date his daughter AND his best mate for decades was a convicted child trafficker and paedo AND there’s been lots of sexual assault court cases against him that doesn’t mean I like cheese. Ok?
It doesn’t mean that at all. Obviously I like cheese just as much as the fat orange paedo likes to fuck kids, but we shouldn’t just jump to the cheese conclusion!!!
I only found a source saying it’s likely intended for clickbait: https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/watch-image-trump-young-girl-030000613.html
probably from the released photos recently. they redact the identity of the victm.
Not to forget that today’s Germany has a massive right shift on its own, including deportation, militarization, uncritical support of a settler colonial project and in that context restriction of freedom of speech and police brutality. #neveragainisnow
But also a massive disconnect of residents to politics that do not at all share a lot of the opinions that are represented to the world e.g. Gaza.
This is supposed to be political humor? I don’t see what’s funny about this. It’s a question that a lot of rational US-ians have been grappling with for at least a year now and I can’t be the only one that’s kept up at night thinking of how powerless I am in this situation.
It’s a valid question for sure, but it doesn’t fit this community.
Yeah, OP should post this instead in !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world
It’s also a shit post (not a shitpost) because it asks the question and then provides no answer. “That’s what everyone’s asking.” Well yeah. Why? Why raise the question into a void?
In the Third Reich, resistance was a considerable risk to life and limb very soon (less than a year) after Hitler seized power due to the totalitarian tyranny. This is not yet the case in the US, but it is clear that work is also being done here to expand totalitarianism with all its repressive measures. Therefore, one must assume that things will only get worse - likely much worse.
It is sad that a whole year of government by a regime that can only be described as organized crime has not been enough to mobilize massive resistance - not even documents showing how the state protects a pedophile ring, or rather, makes it possible in the first place.
The population still has the opportunity to turn the tide, but since it is not doing so, the repressive methods of totalitarian dictatorships will probably soon be in place - and then resistance will mean harsh discrimination, internment, or even death. Then the US will be like Russia, where resistance, which of course exists, is suppressed by force.
I consider this to be the most probable scenario and the logical consequence, considering what US citizens allow their government to get away with.
not been enough to mobilize massive resistance
Colorado:
The Guardian - Were the No Kings protests the largest single-day demonstration in American history?
Fucking Idaho:
I’m not saying there’s no resistance. If I’m not mistaken, the No Kings protests are among the largest in US history. However, they don’t seem to be having the desired effect, especially since there is alarmingly little media coverage of them. I think it would take a general strike that would paralyze the country until the government is removed, because I think it’s impossible for the president to be removed via impeachment.
especially since there is alarmingly little media coverage of them.
That is by design. The current political direction is beneficial to the ones who own and control the mainstream media. Presenting them as small and not giving them a fair share of coverage is a way to frame them as irrelevant and overblown.
It hurts the morale of the people involved in the movement while simultaneously emboldening the far-right with “proof” that the protests are a supposed vocal minority of political extremists.
Yes, that is absolutely correct. On this point, namely the alignment of all important media outlets, the situation in the US has long been very problematic. Due to the centralization that comes with mainstream social media platforms, this effect has, in my opinion, unfortunately intensified significantly over the last twenty years (the reason why musk bought Twitter for example).
The Nazis in Germany had already exploited the power that comes with controlling the media on a massive scale, and Goebbels and his cohorts used tactics similar to those still used by totalitarian states today.
My point is this: the US has effectively been a plutocracy for a long time, and now I fear that the elites are preparing to get rid of even the semblance of democracy. Why? Because they can, and I think they are unscrupulous enough to do so.
So I think it’s important to prevent this while it’s still possible, but unfortunately I don’t think that will happen. Hence my pessimistic outlook for the future - I would be very happy to be proven wrong.
the reason why musk bought Twitter
Personally, I think he stumbled into this one. I think he bought Twitter because
- He likes shitposting
- He was mostly pumping and dumping the stock, as he’s done several times before
- He accidentally got himself legally obligated
- He was enamored with his idea of the “everything” app that was going to do your banking, shopping, etc.
- He wanted to use “x.com” for something.
I influence over elections came well after he owned it, and wasn’t his idea. I think that part was fed to him. He did have a bit of a warped idea of what “free speech” was, but someone helped him either warp it more or ignore it to fit the election narratives needed.
Maybe, but in any case, he now has the ultimate tool for shitposting with Grok.
A single day protest is hardly a resistance is it? Everyone went home afterwards and back to their jobs the next day. Didn’t they?
People are going to have to learn the hard way that real revolution necessitates risk and sacrifice.
You don’t just return to the status quo Monday morning because you can’t bare missing your subscription payments. “Yeah, I work for Google, but this BMW doesn’t pay for itself!”
do that on a weekday and you can brag about it
how many more of those fucking boats have they blown up since then
edit: i shouldn’t describe the actions of my country as “we”. “we” are not blowing up fucking boats.
Yes, we are. We might not be driving, but we’re sure as hell stuck in this car.
Feels like the difference between “where are we going?” and “where are you taking me?”
It’s impossible for me personally because roughly everyone I know falls into one of two camps
-
they’re comfortable and their status quo isn’t challenged. They know where their next 9 meals are coming from, and aren’t at Risk of losing employment/residence/ability to feed themselves.
-
living pay check to pay check, constant fear of not being able to make rent/bills/groceries.
You can’t organize group 1 because they have something to lose and aren’t personally affected. You can’t organize group 2 because they don’t have time, and something like getting arrested at a protest could cost their job/residence/next meal, even when the charges are dropped.
Maybe someone more intelligent and charismatic than me has a shot, but I don’t know how to tell group 1 to risk their safety and the safety of their families for others, or group 2 to risk homelessness, all relying on trust in others.
Listen friend, you aren’t alone. This situation is exactly why fascists are so successful. The people with something to lose are never the ones to start throwing stones. Fascism, depends on a subjugated class that the majority do not belong to.
Real change will require an incredibly risky challenge to authority. For it to work, that challenge will have to to come from someone who belongs to the privileged class. Luigi threw the first stone, and we love him.
What would the cultural reaction have been if the first person to assassinate a CEO was an ethnic minority?
The group up high would look down their nose and tut tut about the uppity minority because the first group at best are prejudice.
Do you really think #2 isn’t something that every freedom fighter has dealt with? They don’t stop protesting because their lives are shit. They do it because of it.
Yeah but #2 doesn’t see itself as a unified group. Differences in ethnicity and culture which have been stoked into rift like divides by republicans, who have been doing so for decades, have driven #2 apart.
I’m sure you’ve seen the cookie pile meme with the rich man, the black man and the white man.
they’re comfortable
This is what the powers in charge have learned. There’s not going to be any sudden world-wars or massive camps to gas socialists, they know well enough now that if you just keep everyone fixated on the narrative and theater, but keep people comfortable enough that they rather clock out of work and crash in their bed, but not entirely starving or needy, then you have a complacent population forever.
The issue here is that fascism is self-consuming, and they never keep people comfortable for long. The discomfort has been ramping up over the last year.
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I thought this was for political humor
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Yeah, this post is a joke.
What should I be personally doing? I am also being persecuted. Should I apply for attic openings? Idk man
If you haven’t already, start making friends with your neighbors. You might need each other.
My neighbors are maga
I have her tagged as “Insufferable girl”. She has expressly said to me in a comment reply that her goal is to be an insufferable removed online. So I doubt she’s able to make friends with anyone that easily. 😬
She asked a reasonable question and here you are following her around calling her names.
She asked a reasonable question and here you are following her around calling her names.
- I didn’t say she didn’t ask a reasonable question. I said nothing regarding her question.
- Why do you think I am “following her around”? I told you, I have her tagged. Lemmy isn’t a big place. I had a very unpleasant encounter with this awful person and I usually tag people that are unprovokedly unpleasant. You know? I saw the tag, I made the comment. Why would I follow around someone who is unpleasant? Make it make sense.
- Also this is what she called herself, sooo… 🤷♂️
Says the literal transphobe troll that follows my comments everywhere because I refuse to speak with them. You need serious help.
you’re on the same instance, .world, so if they are actually following you around you can report them to the admins for harassment…preeetty sure that’s against.world rules…
Nobody is following anyone around, I told you all I have her TAGGED. I saw the tag, made the comment. Very simple.
yeah… there’s a reason i didn’t respond to you.
the other used said you are following them around.
i honestly don’t really care one way or the other, which is why i simply pointed out the option or filing a report.
if you’re not following them around, there shouldn’t be anything to worry about, right?
Sure. But I have my honor. I will not have them slander me, calling me a stalker, and calling me a transphobe, neither of which are true.
In fact, she’s the one who went to my old comments and made comments that I’m a transphobe. That’s one of the worst things you could call me and I resent it completely. That’s why she’s so awful, that she can do something like that to someone. She is the stalker and slanderer. It just disappoints me so much that someone can be so unnecessarily evil.
But as you say, nothing to worry about, sure. 👍
Ah yes, now I remember why you are such an awful person. You were actually the one following ME around on my previous comments, slandering me, saying I’m transphobic, when I in fact am not whatsoever.
I support any and all genders, and the fact that you can be born into the wrong physiological/biological sex.
There, disclaimer set. Now please stop slandering people or I will report you.
You know everyone can see your moderation history right? Or maybe you didn’t- because there isn’t room inside your head with all that “honor”
It’s really ironic that you chose a thread about fascism to air your manic grievances. Stop harassing people, and seriously seek mental health services.
That moderation history was damning lol, blocked. Thanks for the heads up 👍
What’s damning? Please show me what I’ve done that can be offensive and I’ll do my best to better my ways. 👍
Honestly the best thing you can do. This person has serious issues and attaches themselves to anyone who “goes against” them.
What do you even mean by this? Is moderation history where I edit comments? I edit a lot of my comments frequently immediately after posting because I type on my phone and autocorrect is a removed.
Look, all the bullshit aside, if I said something that can be misconstrued as transphobic, I’ll own up to it and apologize, sincerely. But I challenge you to find anything I said that can be presented as trans- or homophobic, or any kind of -phobic. Please. I’m ready to apologize. But don’t slander without evidence.
You require something much stronger than proof. I’m not here for your benefit; as I’m sure you are used to hearing.
Oh and, go ahead and report me! I’m sure they’ll see my tickets faster if you include your baseless one. Have the day you deserve. 🩵
If you keep slandering me about being transphobic, I will.
You have yet to show me how I’m a transphobe. I will happily apologize and try to explain what I really meant if something I said could be interpreted as such. Please, show me the errors of my ways. I’m here for it.
The woman whose job it was to show you things didn’t do the job correctly, but it isn’t my job. If you want a woman to speak with about your actions it should be her- she is the only woman on the face of this earth that owes you anything. Ask her to show you the errors of your ways as she should have done very long ago.
I even literally made anti-bigotry, anti-transphobic comments the other day, and I stood my ground when someone came at me. Please, people, slander is not okay.
how did you tag a user? I miss that feature from RES, haven’t looked into it for lemmy
I’m using Voyager on Android, it supports tagging people. I don’t know if that’s a feature of Lemmy itself, or the client. But it’s there so I use it. 😁
I hope that helps you!
“rest of the world” should ask what their leaders are doing to stop Trump instead of hoping only for Americans to stop him. Keeping US in NATO, and saying nothing about Venezuela and Gaza/Iran, and submitting to absurd rationale for accepting tariffs that will reduce their own economic resilience is simply emboldening Trump’s abuse of them. It doesn’t matter if US manufacturing keeps declining, as long as the colonies tacitly agree with how evil they were to America all along, and how much they enslave their people to supporting what are always US wars, but now with the colonies suffering all the death and damage.
We collectively have the power to collapse the US. Not doing so, emboldens the US into unlimited oppressive power over us. No amount of slaps or harder slaps stops you from being a removed.
No country wants to start a war, and any of your suggestions are the kinda thing which can start wars.
Either civil or multinational
Spain has refused the 5% of GDP for US weapons, war on Russia, and refused port access for Gaza/Iran support fleet. Some mean words from Trump, but no action. No civil discontent over the policy. There’s strong resistance to all budgets that attempt to accomodate austerity and military drafts for the new Napoleonic defeat. (France most clear example).
Not even denouncing Venezuela evil, similar to fake concern expressions over Gaza and Iran, is a new low in sycophancy and cowardice among the colonies. But, it wouldn’t cause an act of war. The UK, the most sycophantic of all colonies who made the most submissive trade deal in Europe, got rewarded with Musk coming to speak ordering whites to overthrow parliament or all be killed by immigrants. More demands this week (buy chlorinated chicken) from white house. Sycophancy doesn’t get rewarded.
While Trump makes fascist executive orders on his own, the colonies are all using regular democratic concensus for even worse laws against speech. All the while begging the US for more orders to follow from them.
Condemning US evil is not an act of war against them, nor likely to result in a declaration of war against the speaking nation. If you base your propaganda on a “rules based world order”, mentioning that rules apply to your master too, once in a while, would make the propaganda/value system more credible.
And you trust Trump to not overreact?
I don’t
Following along with a fascist is never a winning move. When you refuse to stand up for yourself you’ve already lost without them having to do a thing.
Aye, I agree, but I’m not a world leader
That’s absurd. The starting premise was that the Americans should do things, but they risk getting shot or arrested. Now you’re saying no other country can take substantive action… So Trump is unstoppable? … But nobody believes that.
Imagine a toddler that’s got access to a nuke
We’ve got the same answer. He controls the military and the police are on his side. I’m not looking to die today.
But mostly importantly, Germany wanted it. Just like how America wanted Trump. Populations yearn for the pain, hatred, wars and generational bleeding. Sometimes the bloodletting needs to be on oneself.
This yearning… It’s human nature. Will always be. Until humans go extinct.
Right, except that the majority of Americans did not vote for him, did they. So America didn’t want it, did they.
The electoral MAJORITY did vote for him. 77M vs 75M for Harris. Those who chose to stay home and not vote did their part too. This is how a democracy works. Staying home is a choice too in democratic elections. America did want it. They got it. Live with it.
it gets worst than that, some dint even know biden wasnt in the race, or they forgot, or they said “how this affects me now” from a persecuted group.
sorta of they did, the non-voters were pretty much ignorant, blissfully of the whole thing or they sat out, its as bad supporting trump. the gop always have an edge if less people vote, and thats what happened. besides the actual election interference that went on as well
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I see a lot of people outside the USA confused at why we have autocrat when we have gun. I will explain to you the three main archetypes we’re dealing with. First is the has gun, is pro autocrat. They supported this mess in and will die to defend it. The has gun, is against autocrat. They worked against this through the system because the third group said to do so and limits their ability to be effective. The third group has no gun, but wants stability still. They impeded the second group from doing anything because they will pearl grab and support the first when the second tries to do so. It has happened in the past and will in the future. Until that third group gets their collective craniums out of their rectums they’ll impede the second group and support the first indirectly.
I see a lot of people outside the USA confused at why we have autocrat when we have gun.
We’re not confused. We know exactly why. We’re just calling out the bullshit we’ve been listening to for decades when Americans defend having guns in the aisles of Walmart. The idea that it would ever stop a malicious government was crap.
Again, those people are have gun, fine with their autocrat. Not all gun owners are like that, there’s more nuance than what I said but the general picture to understand is there.
First is the has gun, is pro autocrat.
They had gun, because liberal freedom is fascist imposition of freedom on the gun owners. Their autocrat is there to protect them from other people’s freedom.
So, even for those that are comfortable, any employer that has done proper risk control will have hired a service that alerts them to any criminal activity of its employees, including arrests at protests, and will fire arrested employees. Plus, we live in a prison state.
So would you risk your next 9 meals, freedom, plus the well-being of your dependants?
Plus like the other person said, he has the police on his side, and the military under his control.
There are ways, still. Not giving up yet!
Pretty sure a war is won because you endure the hardships, not because you avoid them. Just an fyi.
And what exactly does getting arrested and fired accomplish? As they said we’ve got our families and future to worry about. We can’t just throw our lives away for no effect. I’d gladly take on hardships if it got Trump out of office but nothing I can think of to do would even move the needle towards that goal. We need political leaders to step up and lead the way and none of them are doing it.
Right now, the only serious hardship that I beat is that my empathy is assaulted by the injustices around me. If I were merely “enduring” as you suggest that I do, I wouldn’t even be here having this discussion.
I’m a CIS white male. The hardships haven’t come my way yet. I can do more from this position than I can if I decide to walk clumsily into a fight that I cannot win or even have any effect on. In this position I am able to better effect the outcome of my fellow humans by donating a good percentage of my pay to the local food pantry. Could I do that if I didn’t have a job? No, of course not I would be placing a significant additional burden on that same food pantry and also my relatives who would then have to house me because I wouldn’t be able to pay my mortgage.
I’ve also made personal sacrifices to make sure that local politics move in such a direction as to improve people’s lives. These are the things that we can do.
I have an understanding of strategic advantage. Do you?
We need never be afraid of the vote of informed Americans. It is only the ignorant voter we have to fear, ignorant politically, no matter how fine his house or how expensive his schooling. Such people have never experienced democracy; they have merely enjoyed its benefits. It is hard to explain what democracy is; it is necessary to participate in it to understand it.
The former Berlin businessman I referred to earlier told me that he blamed his own group, people with the time and the money and the opportunity to know better, for what happened to Germany. “We ignored Hitler,” he said. “We considered him an unimportant fellow, not quite a gentleman, not of our own class. We considered it just a little bit vulgar to bother with him, to bother with politics at all.”
They thought of the government as “They.” The only possible route to a clear conscience in politics is to accept political responsibility, either as an active member of the party in power or as an equally active member of the loyal opposition.
–Robert A Heinlein, Take Back Your Government
usually the ignorant ones are trump supporters by in large. many of them were interviewed after the election, plus accounts of people on other social media said thier trump supporting family/friends, never bother to research on what trumps policies were.
Capitalism in the US is in crisis, just as it was in the Weimar Republic before the rise of Hitler.
Everyone is too busy trying to survive/escape the crisis, no one is working to improve things.
Americans are helpless to stop the rise of fascism.
You’re never helpless as long as you’re still resisting. You lose when you give up.
DON’T give up - DON’T give in to reactionary doom-and-gloom and defeatism, read, learn and study socialist/communist theory, organize, and resist Trump’s orders. We believe in you. Seriously!
People need to understand that USA is a superpower. And most importantly, USA owns the western world. Most trade happens in dollars. Without USA the western world will collapse. USA has lot of military power in the world. If USA leaves NATO then NATO will become powerless. That’s why nobody wants to confront trump or any other USA president. The western world wants to be in the good side of USA.
That is the explanation for the rest of the world. But the question implied by the post is why US-Americans don’t do anything to stop their leader as the Germans did not do anything to stop their leader.
We have done many things, thousands of things.
Unfortunately, we are well trained to use legal options, like voting or attending protests or calling our congressional rep.
These haven’t worked, and they won’t work.
The saddest part is people thinking “trump” is the problem, they’ve put the cart before the horse. If he dies, there will be lots of celebration, but still no solution to our problem(s).
its the gop that is, trump is just the lightning rod, and provide cover for the gop and the billionaire donors, which is why the epstein file is so dangerous to them,. occupy wallstreet pretty much show how ineffective it was, if they know you arnt going to riot/violence, they were able to balk at it, pretty much all the recent protest were like this, only ever reinforces D voters
effective propaganda work in pacifying and producing an “enemy” the population, in both cases.
Ok… But that has nothing to do with the message in the picture.
Without USA the western world will collapse
Jesus christ dude. Do you hear yourself?
